What nonsense...

Get that in writing and give him a copy of the receipt.

Who knows? I think the place shuts at 6 pm - and it's a 45 minute drive from the far side of Liverpool, where the dealership is, to my home so the sales manager should be arriving at my house before 7pm. I have yet to hear from him (at 4.50pm) and I would have thought he would have rung if only to check that I will be in to hand over the courtesy car. I'll be really annoyed if he doesn't turn up.

LOL! Yes. Chances are if I just send off the receipt that will be the last I will hear of it and he will deny ever having received it...

I had that (not foot to the floor though...) in the Leon the first winter I had it (on summer tyres): no progress at all until the TC was off.

205s had a bit of rep for ditchfinding didn't they, though addmittedly only if you were enough of a tool to overcook it and lift off mid corner?

Mind you, they were noted for handling very well for a FWD hatch if you weren't a tool. Presumably, some of this is connected: today's cars are engineered into 'safe' understeer, so I understand.

As to ESP? I've never triggered it, except on snow in an empty car park, when it was a pain in the arse. My feeling is it's probably a good thing for those fuckwitted enough to need it, but I do worry some might compensate for it's existence.

I doubt you'd have wanted it to go that quickly, given the handling :-)

Every car I've had newer than 1998 has had one. Only one petrol in that lot though, but the fixings all came undone with either a screwdriver, torx screwdriver, or 13mm socket. I think a lot have them now, for noise, cleanliness, and airflow.

5 minute job.

That was the costing given to me when i enquired

My focus has one secured with approx 12 screws , the son in laws bravo has one to , i believe the new BMWs have them

Its not the case of no spanners its struggling to get them off without the benefit of a lift and finding the fixing positions which are often rather creatively hidden .

Those that are not so good with thier hands will just look and give in

Oddly enough most diyers don't try & buy their tools from the main dealer.

I haven't seen any cardboard ones they either seem to be composite material, fibreglass or plastic .

If they are lying at the side of the motorway they quite blatently weren't

You seem to be forgetting most of us here are practical people who are used to and aware of the different tools available these days

Not everyone is aware that torx and security screwdrivers and sockets are readily available , i still see people trying to remove phillips and pozi fixings with a standard straight bladed screwdriver

That was my first thought and that of my local independant whos been around a long time , unfortunatly non of his kit would work , he made enquires with his suppliers incase he had missed out on an upgrade and they couldnt help , rang around all his other contacts they couldnt help , everyone said its a dealership only job

When i took it into citroen for a recall and asked them to reset the service counter and asked them if its possible to reset it without the oem kit the answer was no not at the moment third party kit can not access all the infomation or supply all the infomation needed .

They even took me through to the workshop and showed me

Actually i do possess the tools as i use torx heads most days

Yes true however you now need a computer a dongle and lead with specialist software to do the same job

Software and dongle that are not freely available and charged at an exhorbidant price

Didnt the Mercs have a problem with one of the smallers models

That'll do the Doblo, from v2.1 upwards.

So it'll most likely do the Nemo and Bipper, too.

A tenner or less for an OBDII cable, and 50 euros for FiatECUScan....