1.8T Woes.

Morning gents,
I've just gone all hairdresser and bought a broken 1.8T Audi TT to do up.
Anyone left here wot knows 1.8Ts?
Here's a pic of the inlet side of my Turbo:
http://tinyurl.com/3d99lec
I guess the oil seals have probably gone, and the ends of the blades look a bit curly to me, would anyone like to confirm?
It's got a couple of other issues. Changing the turbo looks like a bit of a Pig without taking the engine out, anyone done similar and has any tips?
--
Douglas

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On 3/07/11 5:52 PM, Douglas Payne wrote:

Oil seals on the turbo isn't a massive job. I'd take it to a specialist. Blades look ok to me in the picture. Are they all uniform? Does the compressor spin freely? A new second hand turbo might be a cheaper way to go, if you can score one off ebay from someone who is upgrading theirs.
Fraser
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On 04/07/2011 02:22, Fraser Johnston wrote:

The blades aren't curly to the same extent, the compressor spins, but I don't really know how it should feel.
The main problem in this car is access. It's not a big engine bay, the turbo's on the back of the engine, with about 6" between it and the bulkhead and there's quite a beefy subframe and transfer box in the way from the underside.
I think I am going to drop the subframe, looks relatively simple.
Ebay is awash with new and recon turbo options, I'm not sure how much cheaper rebuilding my own turbo would be than just buying a new one.
Will the turbo housing be damaged by running with buggered oil seals?
--
Douglas

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I seriously wouldn't buy a turbo from ebay if I wanted more than a core that's hopefully rebuildable.

Depends - did you check if the turbo shaft has any play? Radial or axial play is usually what does in the housings and the impellers.
--
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On 05/07/2011 12:39, Timo Geusch wrote:

Being a turbo novice - how come?

There is axial and radial play. More than I would expect for something that spins at tens of thousands of RPM.
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On 6/07/11 7:38 AM, Douglas Payne wrote:

Because there is a good chance you might get one that is just as knackered as yours.

Chances are the bearings are shot then.
Fraser
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On Wed, 06 Jul 2011 10:22:55 +0800, Fraser Johnston

If the impeller spins freely when given a thumb/forefinger flick, its rebuildable. Any drag on housing means the impellers have touched and are scrap. The swarf that comp wheel to comp housing contact creates will wreck the engine, requiring a re-bore. It will show up by metallic flecks in the inlet ducts. Getting it out of the intercooler is close to impossible, whatever you do you can't be sure you got it all out and all it takes is one old fleck of alloy case to pass though and lodge in between piston top land and bore, so a new IC is needed.

150,000 - 200,000 are typical speeds for small turbos.

A 2nd hand turbo from a car that doesn't have a large number of people upgrading at low mileage (<60k) is not a good idea. 2nd hand turbo from a car that has history of early turbo failure is also silly. All you get is a core that can be rebuilt while you drive on the better of the two and have to do the turbo fitting more than once.
One of my cars has an E-bay fake Chinese "Garrett" T25, it was about 250 new - about 1/2 what the genuine item costs. It loses more boost at top end (or doesn't hold boost very well) and seems to spool a bit later than the 180K [1] mile genuine turbo I had on another car. That old turbo had quite definite radial play but no detectable axial play, it was starting to smoke if run on idle for some time. Even with washers under the waste gate bracket the copy seems to be 1 psi down on what I remember the old turbo made over 3K-5K range, that's with the same gauge. The car does have a smaller bore 2.75" SS mongoose and not a 3" Blueflame. It's got a cone filter that the old one didn't have. I ditched the dump valve. The old car had shot rings, about 7 bar comp, the new car has proper comp but less boost.
When I bought the car the fake turbo seemed to have been fitted quite recently (and even though they had receipt for fitting it was short of 2 head-mani studs, one stud mangled other sheared). I've done 12K miles on it so far. Fake turbo will have to do over 90K miles to break even on fitting a genuine item.
If you were fitting it to just get shut of the car then it's much more expensive than a 2nd hand one. But you could fit a few 2nd hand ones before you find a decent one.
First you have to find why the old one died. Oil has to be clean and interim changes done. Post shutdown water cooling circuit has to work. If it has an electric pump to keep flow going during shutdown after engine is off, that has to work. Restricted oil return to sump is a very good way to make a good or even new turbo smoke. The oil can't get out quick enough, so stays in the housing and goes though the piston ring type seals quite easily. Some people have fitted turbo after turbo after turbo and then a new one, only to find that still smoked. The old turbo was fine once back of turbine and comp wheel was cleaned and put on another car. Blocked breathers or poor rings will also increase sump pressure and as turbo housing is at sump pressure will help push oil though seals.
I did think fake turbo was dead last month. Boost was all over the place, loud whooshy whine at high rpm. No boost at 2K should have been about 4-5psi, 5psi at 3K should have 10psi, sudden increase at 4K from 5psi to 10-11psi about 2 secs after full throttle had been applied, should have risen smoothly and almost as fast as throttle opened. Turned out to be a sized viscous fan that had lost it's oil seal was causing so much turbulence it upset the AFM.
[1] I was expecting 60K per turbo 12 years ago. But I did 100K of those recorded 180k miles.
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On 06/07/2011 08:41, Peter Hill wrote:

The impeller spins and does not appear to drag on the housing, however it does not continue to rotate for any amount of time after a flick.

Do VAG 1.8T engines have a reputation for early turbo failure? I probably wouldn't have bought a used turbo anyway, was thinking more along the lines of ones advertised as 'new'. From what you say the cheap ones are probably chinese copies as per: http://tinyurl.com/42ze8ob
As opposed to remanufactured: http://tinyurl.com/6f9es72
Or new: http://tinyurl.com/5r7c5dc
Do you think Eurocarparts will sell real turbos or fake ones?

My plan is to replace most of the breathing system.
The electric pump runs for 5 mins after switching the ignition off.
The oil was very dirty, I changed it when I bought the car a few days ago and running it for the few miles I have has made the oil black again.
--
Douglas

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No - my 1.8T was still healthy at 180k miles - there was no documentation for a turbo replacement in the comprehensive history file.
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SteveH

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A firm of US Lawyers sued VW in a class action over 1.8T turbo failures and won a settlement for their clients. So it would look like the answer is "yes" since they won their case.
I've also seen one heck of a lot of 1.8T badged cars burning oil or stranded by the side of the road over the last eight years or so.
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On 06/07/2011 19:13, Steve Firth wrote:

I've been advised to replace certain coolant and oil lines as they are strung near the exhaust manifold and have a tendency to get baked and blocked.
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Douglas

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TBH I think the main problem is that many of them are repmobiles and reps maltreat turbo cars - whang down the motorway getting everything hot, pull into service station for their "lartays" and just turn the engine off and walk away leaving the oil to cook.
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On Thu, 7 Jul 2011 02:34:19 +0100, %steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote:

Seems they have a rep for belt failure and newer ones have reduced change interval.

The heat soaks into turbo from cast log manifold.
What will really bugger them up is people skipping the interim oil change or city use on short runs that puts them on a "high maintenance" schedule and then just having the full service.
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And that's mostly why. The "forum egg spurt" that built the turbo MX5 I bought (yes, I should have known better) used what awfully looked like a fake ebay special Garrett (it was quite obvious that it wasn't the real thing when compared to the real thing). it survived half a track day before the turbo started smoking badly. Further investigation pointed at the need for a new turbo as it wasn't really worth attempting to rebuild a knock-ff turbo.
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On 5/07/11 5:45 PM, Douglas Payne wrote:

It's hard to rebuild your own turbo because you need the special machine to balance it. The housing should be fine.
Fraser
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On 06/07/2011 03:21, Fraser Johnston wrote:

OK, thanks Fraser, I'll get it checked out.
I don't suppose anyone here lurking has any leads for turbo recon outfits in Aberdeen or the surrounding area?
--
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On 06/07/2011 23:24, Douglas Payne wrote:

Have you taken the turbo off to have a look in the turbine housing? If there's enough play in the bearing to do that damage to the compressor side the turbine side is probably in a similar condition. If the turbine and compressor wheels both have that damage along with the damaged housings there's very little left to recondition. And stay away from Chinese copies, I've seen pictures of ones where the compressor housing has just fallen apart where they were just glued together. Have you tried Overton for a used one, may not be the cheapest breaker but at least they're local and you can inspect the turbo before purchasing it.
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On 10/07/2011 11:48, Homer wrote:

Urk - glue doesn't sound good.
I've been working late shift and also been on call for the last 7 days. More fool me. Last week I rounded a turbo/manifold bolt so work has stalled. I have bought a drill in anticipation of drilling the bugger out.
Overton is an option for a used turbo suitable for recon if mine is goosed. Might keep my eyes open for a 1.8T Passat at Persley too, perhaps turbo access is easier on the Londitudinal version. Cheers for the heads up.
Can anyone reccommend any of the multitude of 'send your broken turbo away and get it back shiny' outfits advertising on the t'internet?
I've got a couple of days off this week so will endeavour to get the turbo off by Sunday. Once it's off I plan to see if I can find 'a man wot knows' to give me some advice.
--
Douglas

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On 12/07/11 6:01 AM, Douglas Payne wrote:

Snap-on, Metrinch and a myriad of other spanners will get rounded bolts off. Get something that grips on the flats and not the corners.
Fraser
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On 12/07/2011 03:52, Fraser Johnston wrote:

I've got a fair selection of Teng and others but the rounded bolt has a male torx head on it. Even the right socket rounded it.
I've nearly drilled the head off now.
Got most of the prep to drop the subframe and exhaust done.
My Landlord's letting agent is inspecting the property on Thursday afternoon. I think I will wait till friday before draining the steering...
--
Douglas

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