Better Car VTS or VTR

Surely that's quite an important factor, to your average hot-hatch buyer ?

You're missing the point here !

The Saxo is a DRIVER'S car - there's not much to touch it for performance/ride/handling. The Fabia/Ibiza (or infact, pretty much any of the VAG range) is not.

There's no such thing. More power = more mpg.

Eh ?

When comparing the Saxo to it's peers, you can't take it's size into account - clearly the other cars in the class are of similar size, otherwise they would be in a different class !!

Bear in mind that I would never ever consider buying a Saxo, or any other small car.

So that's actualy a no you would have the 106 over it. (As would I)

Oh, I'm sorry. ;)

Unless you go diesel where you can get more power, better MPG and cheaper tax.

Ok I plumbed the info from the VTR & VTS into a spread sheet and the answer is: (Drum roll please) The VTR by 18.9 points.

Unless you want the performance weighted then it's the VTS by 1.22 points.

You have taken this long to work out I'm evil? Bwahaha hahaha!

You are Dervman's twin brother and I claim my five pounds. I remember when they found Michael Knight's twin in Knightrider though. One of you is bound to be evil.

I think it's just called the I4, as it's basically a larger, revised version of the RS2000 lump with balancer shafts etc.

Andy

Mwahahahahahahahah!

Must be Derv that's the evil twin:

Er, they're identical cars !

After all you've said, then you'd own a 106 (Saxo in drag) ?

No need to be. I'm very happy with my 1997 "R" plate 200bhp, for four grand :)

...and a *VASTLY* increased purchase price. You need a VERY modern Diesel to make the grade, and that means big money. And none of the decent Derv lumps are in small cars anyway, so it's a moot point.

I'd love to swap my 200bhp Petrol for 200bhp of Diesel - but the BMW 330d would sting me to the tune of thirty grand !

The quoted combined mpg is 35, and the residuals are average. Note, I said combination. None of the others can offer the same combination....

And weighs over 100kg more. It's the difference between 110 Bhp/ton and

The residuals on the MINI are very good. Whilst they will undoubtedly slip as time goes on, that is by far the biggest factor in the economy of running the car - the difference in fuel economy between the cooper and the VTS amounts to about £160 per year, which is negligible. However, acceptance of depreciation is implicit in the purchase of a new car.

Fair enough, although that weighs over 200Kg more than the saxo, and has comparatively dull handling.

Not at all. I'm a big fan of turbo-diesels, especially modern DI ones. On the other hand Hot hatches are about cheap thrills and thrashing, and that isn't what diesel cars are best at - they are best at mid range grunt and relaxed cruising.

The JD power survey is o.k. if you read the data carefully, and bear in mind the potential for systematic errors. Factors such as what the main dealers are like are of no relevance to how good the car is, but do affect the JD power survey. Also, it relies on the subjective assesments of an uncalibrated set of people, and it ignores buying trends. (e.g. the majority of micras have a much easier life than many other small hatches, simply because they are driven by grannies and do 2000 miles per year.)

The question was would you buy the Saxo the answer was no you would take the

No I said I would take the 106 over the Saxo not that I would chouse a 106 in a free choice of all cars in this class.

Don't you find it claustrophobic with that big B pillar? Nearly ended up with one in the mid 90's (not the turbo) but went with the Laguna because of that.

Where did you get 35 from? Not Citroen they give 33.2 for the VTS and 42.1 for the VTR. Taken direct from there web site and all the figures I gave are combined:

Er, they're identical !

Er, they're identical !

Gearbox is the same, it just has a slightly different 2nd-gear ratio.

Rubbish. The Saxo and 106 are the same car ! Not just the same underpinnings, but the same EVERYTHING.

Not at all, I'm very pleased with it. Had it about a year now - in the same situation, I'd buy the same again.

Hmmm. By FAR the best part of the TI is the engine - I can't think of any reason to buy a "normal" Rover 600 - there are MANY better cars around.

Are you Nom Walker Murry's brother? Identical but different? "The lead car is absolutely unique, except for the one behind it which is identical"

Bar as you have admitted the body and the gearing which are different. Do they share the same interior or dose the 106 have different seats, dash, clocks?

It was a company car so had to be to a budget & an auto for another member of staff. The Laguna was a nice car bar the little niggles (the air con caught fire).

Clocks are the same i think, dash is different, 106 has half leather as well....

Ok so it's just the inside, outside and some of the mechanics that are different, apart from that they are identical? ;)

Have they stopped making the 106? I can't find it on the Pug web page.

Yea, stopped the Saxo too havn't they?