Better Car VTS or VTR

It makes a difference to the times cos the GTi needs 3rd for 60.

Yes.

Hence "Gearing is almost identical - makes no difference to the drive".

The only difference, is that one of em can just hit 60 in second, and one cannot.

No one plans to crash (well not many people) but it happens a lot, and 2 stars is quite francly dredfull.

The Fabia is band A with 130bhp and is heavier than the saxo, the Mini cooper has 115bhp and is in band B. So the fabia is £55 a year cheaper to tax plus the savings on fuel. Being in band D just shows how bad the engine is by comparison.

Crash safety mpg and tax don't matter? Are you a suicidal man who loves to give money to Gordon Brown?

If you think a tin buzz box that's more lightly to get you killed and pollutes like John Prescott after a curry is a good car then the saxo if for you, I don't I happen to think it's a very bad car on this basis.

That the only thing the Saxo has over its competition.

competition is

"Surely not!" the crowd roar. :)

I was just pre-empting your comment re: Sport Ka

In what respect?

For the drive, the VTS has more go, for running costs, the VTR. Both look similar, only car nerds / Saxo fans can spot the difference.

Great fun providing you can get comfortable, and the chassis is one of the snappier ones at the limit.

The VTS donk is reputed to have troublesome hot starting difficulties, check the various Saxo clubs for details on this.

The interiors are a bit fragile, but if they're looked after, they should be okay.

And if you're going to _proper_ mod the car, get a 1.0i four speeder, since you'll be ripping out the engine, brakes and interior anyway. :)

So a Lotus Carlton is a very bad car as well then? I imagine they get pretty poor mpg, they're in the highest tax band, and being that its an old design, probly doesn't do too well in crash safety.

If you're in the market for a Saxo VTS you're clearly more worried about the driving experience than the pennies, and confident enough in your abilities and don't think you'll crash :)

Its not for a different market at all! Its a, and i use the term loosely here, 'hot' supermini. Although it doesn't compare to any of the other (Saxo, 106, Lupo) cos its far slower, its more a lifestyle car choice i feel, like the Audi TT. And it has a rattly old re-badged CVH engine...

You have to compare it to other cars of the time and cost and class. If it's significantly less safe, more expensive to run and more polluting than a similar car that's slightly slower then I would say it's a worse car.

Different people assignee different importance to different aspects of a car, I'm more biased towards safety, space and cost of ownership.

Even the drivers don't seem over impressed with the saxo experience.

According to the JD Power satisfaction survey

In 2001 the saxo came 169th of 182 cars. (92% of cars had better satisfaction)

In 2003 the saxo was 128th but of only 137. (Now 93% of cars beat that)

Dose anyone know how they fared in 2002?

Thats the difference i s'pose :) All on personal preference.

The HGT does EVERYTHING better than the Sport Ka. How do they compare on price?

I _think_ they're about the same.

Although I've seen year old 'nearly-new' HGTs for under £7.5k. Which is, IMHO, a bit of a steal.

I know a guy with a VTR who has over 150k on the clock of it...

Its a pre-face lift one, and it gets ragged daily.

Even tho no one can decide if they are 1.7 or 1.8 :)

Either way, 130bhp and 0-60 in 8 seconds, just a shame they don't have a 6 speed box like the 1.2 sportings.

All this fuss because Infern0 didn't define better, good thing we don't have people like us in NATO. ;)

Does it? I thought it had a pushrod Endura-E.

I'm fairly sure the StreetKa does, and it's supposed to be the same engine.

They're all stupid little shopping trolleys, anyway.

Richard

Skoda Fabia.

Richard

They aren't in any tax band, all being made well before 2001 or whenever that rubbish started ;)

Richard

Nah its a 1.6 'Duratec' innit?

Agreed :)