Diesel? That's for Teachers and Coppers, you Muppet

I think you summed that all up pretty well. A lot of that is similar to my thoughts on the matter, so you've saved me a lot of typing.

Cheers.

Agreed. But that's moot, because almost all Diesels are Turbocharged. NA Diesels don't exist these days.

Ah, it's great to get an unbiased opinion :)

But Turbos are reliable simple and cheap, now that they're fitted to lots and lots of cars. The oldy Turbos that you refer to, are long gone - there's no penalty to owning a Turbo car these days.

Agreed.

No. It's not.

I was thinking more along the lines of 4.0 Jag engine than the Cherokee lump. However, I'd still rather drive the 4.0 than the 2.0 as there is

If it's 450 bhp then it's not standard.

However, for a standard 5.0 lump that's nicer than a 450 BHP Supra to drive, try a TVR engined TVR (or a Griffith 500, a V10 M5, for that matter the old V8 M5 had a lovely engine. Porsche 928 engines are lovely as well.

Then try the TVR, M5, 928 or similar against a standard Supra. They'll still be a lot nicer than the 3.0 Turbo to drive.

The only decently responsive turbo powered things I've driven in the last few years have been Saab 9-5 Autos, and I think that was the gearbox more than the engines delivery.

Nicer - goes from 1000 rpm. But its heavier.

But no go when you want to pull away hard like the big petrol motor or the rover V8 has.

without tuning neither can I but what actually matters is the spread of power or the area under the curve not the hieght of any peaks.

eRR what happened to the diesel/petro discussion?l

Admittedly you nail the throttle, it kicks down and just lights up the rear tyres....

Indeed but the V8 in the Jag must weigh 50% more than a small turbomotor. Don't get me wrong - I like them, but there are huge advantages and as much enjoyment to be had from small forced induction motors.

Indeed it's not...

Supra is comfy, quiet (ish), very very fast, automatic (point and shoot) and has ABS and traction control. Now why would I want a TVR?

Not sure there either. The M5 is a revmachine and is one of my favourite cars of all time - unfair to compare it against other things (and not that impressive below 3000 rpm either....)

In news:HoqdnWuCI snipped-for-privacy@karoo.co.uk, Tim S Kemp decided to enlighten our sheltered souls with a rant as follows

You're talking to a bloke who's owned quite a few forced induction 2.0 four pots. Some of which were pretty seriously tuned, but if I'd have had the option then I'd have had larger capacity NA engines same as I would now. I just didn't have the funds at the time.

Ah, traction control. If you like it, then you're obviously not of my school of thought. If I'm going to have a big, hairy, fast sportscar, I don't want gubbins that make it easier. I want to enjoy taming the power, not have a chip doing it for me.

But if kept over 3000 rpm the M5's a bit brilliant, engine wise, brilliant sound track, and lag free response.

No, I'm of the school of thought that anything that can improve the chances of survival on an unpredictable road surface is a good thing and should be on all the time when driving on normal roads at normal levels of concentration. Trackdays are a different matter - and mercedes are wrong for not having an option to completely kill their traction control systems.

A turbo motor kept over 3000 rpm is pretty much lag free. As is a turbo motor with nitrous...

Lag is fun. Lag means something is about to happen :)

Did I? I don't think so. Probably quoted as me saying it when it was actually someone else, whose text doesn't get quote marks automatically added to the lines.

I'd want one.

Fraser

Me 2 but it just proves we are loonies...

Well my licence plate is THEMAD1 so that kinda gives it away a bit.

Fraser

Aw s*it, it was Douglas :)

In news: snipped-for-privacy@news.ntlworld.com, LordyUK decided to enlighten our sheltered souls with a rant as follows

Heh, proper engines mean it already has ;-)

Exactly - whatever was going to happen has happened.

And was boring :)