OT ipods

How about the need to use iTunes, and the search for third-party software, much of which is shareware or commercial, to deal with basic tasks such as copying music. Would people put up with that for a digital camera? No recording. No radio.

Do you have anything to substantiate that? Please tell me all about the "technical aspects" that passed me by.

No comment or interest as I have no idea why anyone would want to watch video on a screen that size apart from bling factor.

So you use AAC, then. Apple Lossless is good, but eats the disc space.

Personal radios are almost inevitably s**te, though.

Thing is, with iTunes, you stick a CD in the drive, let iTunes do it's stuff, then the next time you plug in the iPod it's transferred over.

With most other solutions, you have to fire up an MP3 encoder, choose the location to save the files and then manually drop them onto the player.

Seriously, iTunes is by far *the* best way to deal with MP3s.

You mean Apple's proprietary version of AAC, presumably. Do you think they make as much as possible proprietary for the good of their customers? Why would anyone want to use a proprietary codec when there are open alternatives?

This is typical of an Apple fan. Any lacking feature is excused as being s**te as Big Brother what's good for you.

So what? Are you implying that we have entered the realms of advanced computing technology? Since I ditched iTunes, I have noticed that it actually used to *get in the way* despite trying to look fluffy and friendly.

So what? I'm not sure why you see this trivial step that increases flexibility as a bad thing.

You can keep repeating it, but I have yet to hear any justification. All I hear is something like "I love Apple, everything they do is good, iTunes is the best, it locks me in just great, I have to like it now as it's a pain to get away from it, bye bye choice, who needs choice when I can trust Apple to look after me."

The open alternative being standard MP3, which isn't great, or Ogg, which is almost totally unsupported.

Hold on a minute. In the old days, most personal cassette players didn't have a radio. It wasn't a problem then, so why is it suddenly a problem now?

If you want a personal radio, buy a personal radio.

How the *f*ck* can it 'get in the way'. It's the most intuitive and simple process I can think of. Life is too short to piss about with MP3 or similar files. iTunes makes it something I don't have to think about.

It's hardly trivial. Why create extra task when sticking in a CD and plugging in an iPod is all you need do?

See above. Stick in CD, press one button, plug in iPod and your CD is now on the iPod. It's easy, it's idiot proof, it works and it's quick. It needs no thought process at all, it's intuitive, and people who aren't computer literate can do it.

Ahhhh, you appear to be using Linux / Unix. That explains everything.

By Apple. Other vendors do support it.

You just moved the goalposts. I was referring to the tendency of Apple users not to care about features that Apple don't provide (and then to shower Apple with acclaim when they catch up). It's not a problem, but don't tell me that a feature is s**te purely because it's not on the Apple.

Err, yeah.

It is a disk and memory hog, takes too long to start up, and doesn't do what I want it to do. I can only assure you that I don't think about it either.

Because it increases flexibility. If you're telling me that dragging and dropping a folder is hardly trivial, I can do nothing but despair and disagree, especially as you're a Mac user. I thought all Mac users could do that.

It's quick? Can you qualify that, or does it just look like it's quick? It's a hog that takes ages to start, and tries to mask it by loading some of itself at boot-time. How is it quicker than my system? I am willing to bet hard cash that I can rip and transfer a CD in just as quick a time, if not quicker. Feel free not to include system boot time from cold if you think you can get an advantage that way.

You're repeating yourself so I will too. It lacks functionality and diminishes choice. The fact that it needs no thought process isn't necessarily a good thing. So do activities such as not voting and crashing your car. For me, thought wins out.

People who aren't computer-literate can drag a folder, although obviously computer-literate is pretty subjective. I thought Apple users were proud of that aspect of their OS, that they think is a unique selling point, but is really applicable to any mainstream OS, which is that you don't need to be a supposed geek to use it.

For your information, like you care, my main machine is set up to automatically rip and eject any music CD that I insert. I then have to type one word (I could click an icon but typing works for me and I have a choice) to synchronise it with my iRiver.

I don't see how this is any worse than the process you describe above. I don't see how it takes up more thought process. But I do see how it is better.

Specifically, Linux. It explains nothing, but please, pray tell us all what you mean, don't leave it so cryptic.

Why do anything the easy way when you can make using a computer as painful as pulling your own teeth with rusty pliers.

The difference being, Linux provides several options for the pliers. OSX demands you go under a general while it does the pulling for you, and you have to trust firstly it chooses the right tooth, and secondly, it actually has the pliers installed.

Aside from ogg, are you unaware that you can use other Codecs with iTunes?

In fact, it looks like there might be an ogg codec, too (won't help with the iPod, but for iTunes)...

Richard

Never had the inclination to try, my MP3 player is mostly used in-car and on-train (seldom these days) rather than for serious listening in a controlled environment. MP3 may be crap but anyone can handle it.

You must be surrounded by techno-whizzes.

Naah I've had a few that've been quite good - they suffer from lack of antenna mostly but as long as you can force mono they're fine for everyday use.

Assuming you're not trolling, I'd like to know how you arrived at that statement, and please remember to tell us about your experiences using Linux, otherwise some of us might think you didn't know what you were talking about.

Also, don't think I didn't notice your "selective snippage".

No good to the listener who wants to listen to music on the move, in ogg format. It's like spraying perfume on a turd. :)

If you ever decide to try I'd be interested to hear of your experience with Vorbis.

It's amazing. Some of them even plugged in a webcam.

Well, I've tried several times to install different Linux varieties on both x86 and PPC hardware. Frankly, life is far too short to be arsed with trying it again.

Not when I can use OSX, which has all the plus points of Unix along with the most intuitive and user friendly interface given to an OS to date.

I just can't be arsed. You appear to think that making stuff as user friendly as possible isn't a good thing. I know lots of people (my wife included) who would struggle to encode MP3s and download them to a player. However, she's a Mac convert (we got an iMac running OS9 as a wedding present) these days - mainly because she can do everything she wants to do with a computer (downloading photos from a camera with iPhoto, encoding and generally dealing with MP3s, a bit of web and mail use) without any intervention from me these days. *That's* why iTunes and the iPod are so popular. They just work, out of the box, with no hassle. Simple enough for technophobes to get to grips with, but powerful enough for more experienced users to tweak.

..

Would it be rude to compare a linux PC to an Alfa, and your mac to, say, a honda civic? :-)

cheers, clive

erm, I can see where you're coming from, but I'd prefer to think of it more like the reliability of a Honda with the style of an Alfa ;-)

Ogg has very little to offer, except the 'open source' nature which appeals to hippies. Frankly, I couldn't care less about lack off ogg support /except/ when I find an album I wanted to download a pre-ripped version of (I hate trying to move vinyl into iTunes) has been prepared as ogg by an aforementioned stinking hippy.

I haven't experimented, but I'm wondering if the existence of the ogg codec in iTunes allows it to convert music to MP3/AAC anyway.

Richard

The original Civic was a great little car.

Car to computer analogies don't work. Linux PCs are more like a Locost, anyway.

Richard

And? Surely the current one is the epitome of user friendliness and reliability, just like a mac?

I did sort of wonder about that, but decided it spoiled it :-)

cheers, clive