Are subframes OEM on 1999 Convertibles?

in 2000 with 17,000 miles on it. Back in late January I got into an accident and my car wound up bouncing off of a guard rail on the drivers side. Here's my problem - I brought it to a local body shop who contracted the alignment out to a Midas. Well, the Midas guys called me up and said the alignment couldn't be done without customizing the car. The issue? Subframe supports on the bottom of the car. There are 2 that run parallel with the body on both sides and one large one underneath the engine. I did not put these on and I highly doubt that the previous owner did as that was a rental car company. The Midas refused to do the alignment and then the body shop owner contracted the job to a Monroe Muffler who also refused to do it. I got my car back on Monday and the alignment still isn't done. I can tell it's out of whack and I'm taking it to a Ford dealer on Friday to get the alignment done with the body

how they wouldn't be as it's a convertible car and it would make sense to have them to keep down body flex.

Has the body shop verified that the unibody is within spec?

Hmmmm, I'm not sure what you mean by that. This is the first time I've ever been in an accident so I'm a little, uh, naive.

I seriously doubt that they are factory. Have you thought to ask the guys at the dealership shop if they are aware of anything like that included as standard equipment?

Kate OH... and you are probabaly better off that Midas refused to work on your car. Talk about a rip off outfit. Those bastards make a living taking advantage of peple that don't know anything about their cars.

"DevilPaul" wrote in message news:eO5_d.83595$ snipped-for-privacy@twister.nyroc.rr.com... I have a 1999 3.8L V6 convertible "35th Anniversary" Mustang that I bought used in 2000 with 17,000 miles on it. Back in late January I got into an accident and my car wound up bouncing off of a guard rail on the drivers side. Here's my problem - I brought it to a local body shop who contracted the alignment out to a Midas. Well, the Midas guys called me up and said the alignment couldn't be done without customizing the car. The issue? Subframe supports on the bottom of the car. There are 2 that run parallel with the body on both sides and one large one underneath the engine. I did not put these on and I highly doubt that the previous owner did as that was a rental car company. The Midas refused to do the alignment and then the body shop owner contracted the job to a Monroe Muffler who also refused to do it. I got my car back on Monday and the alignment still isn't done. I can tell it's out of whack and I'm taking it to a Ford dealer on Friday to get the alignment done with the body shop footing the bill. Does anyone know if these subframes are OEM? I don't see how they wouldn't be as it's a convertible car and it would make sense to have them to keep down body flex.

Convertibles do come with some rather weak subframe connectors as I recall. Nothing like the aftermarket ones. If you could put pictures up on the web, that would help.

1999 and later 'verts have OEM subframe connectors and a k-member brace. The SFCs are thin-walled square tube and are bolted on. The k-member brace is a stamped and welded piece the binds the rear of the k-member to the front subframe. It is also bolted on and covers most of the underside of the oil pan.

So... If they are bolted on, what's the problem? The shop should take them off and straighten the car, check the subs for damage and replace them if needed.

I agree :). I don't get the issue either. The frames are straight or they are not and the only way to tell is to attempt an alignment or check the shape of the structure. Do the shops mention have some sort of guarantee to make a car reach a proper alignment? That might explain their reluctance to touch a car that's been damaged ;).

Dan

2003 Cobra convertible With some stuff and things

The thin wall bolt on sub frame connectors are indeed factory original on the 99+ convertibles. Both shops unwillingness to align this car because of this is obviously a plessing in disquise. This is just another example of why these shops have the reputation they do. I see no reason the front end alignment can't be set due to subs being installed even if they were aftermarket.If the car is out of spec send it back to the body/frame shop, but atleast check the damn thing and note it on paper work. Just be thankful the car will now be checked by someone alittle more knowledgable/competent. I would let the body shop know how unsatisfied you were with their choice of alignment shops. I would not send a vehicle to another shop that I don't a good relationship with and have first hand experience with and shops like this would cease to get referrals.

Tim (Musttanguy) PonyPerformance.com

One other thing in addition to Tim's sound advice.

Sometime soon after your car went into the shop, they should have put it on a frame rack and measured it. It may have even been part of the original estimate. When they finished the job, they should have done the same. Someplace in between the two it would have been up on the rack for repairs. There should be printouts of the first and the last time it was measured. Ask for copies of them. I would also ask them to put it back on the rack when you can be there and have them hand you a current printout of the cars measurements. They will have to reach a certain percentage of 100% before they are considered properly repaired. If they are unwilling to comply, then call your insurance adjuster and tell him/her what is going on Explain the problem that you are having and they will look into it for you and back you up. It may be more difficult if you are a claimant. if this is the case, you should have your insurance company call the adjuster. As a general rule more will get accomplished that way.

If the shop doesn't have a good frame rack, request that the car be taken to a better shop. One with the proper equipment to do the job right.

After you get this information, you will be able to tell if the body is still bent out of whack or not.

If so, THAT is what makes me suspect that the alignment shops are trying to avoid. I think that they know they cannot get it back to specs because it still ahs some damage and they will not be able to get it right - ever.

Just my opion, only worth the paper it's printed on.

Kate

"DevilPaul" wrote in news:Dg6_d.83599$ snipped-for-privacy@twister.nyroc.rr.com:

The unibody is the main structure of the car...less the front fenders, hood, doors, decklid (basically the stuff that's bolted on). The suspension is bolted to the unibody....if the unibody is bent, those mounting points have moved in relation to each other and alignment may be impossible.

Now, why the alignment shops say that subframe connectors are the reason an alignment can't be done is beyond me because they shouldn't be in the way. The alignment shops should have found if some parts (the lower control arms...tie-rods...etc) were bent.

As others have said in this thread...the body shop needs to confirm if the unibody is straight. (if it's a collision repair shop it should have a frame jig to check it) If they don't check it, they may be giving you an unsafe car.

If they say the unibody is straight...tell them to check the k-member (even though it should be part of the unibody checking)...the front suspension/steering/brakes are bolted to this and it's bolted to the unibody.

Here's a pic of an aftermarket k-member...it's the blue thing.

Off the subject but...

There is not a "35th Anniversary" edition V6 mustang, all '99 Mustangs wore a 35th Anniversary badge. The official "35th Anniversary" Mustang's are all GT's. They were a special edition with a hood scoop, stripes, rear trunk panel, shifter handle, and a few other things to set them apart from other GT's.

My guess is it's just another stupid corporate-lawyer-lawsuit-exposure thing combined with general stupidity.

1) they won't touch cars with modified chasis/suspension. 2) they don't know mustang verts have subframe connectors and the brace stock from the factory and think it's a mod.

Ummm....seems to me if it wears the badge, which it does, then it's a "35th Anniversary" edition :). You (WraithCobra) are referring to the "35th Anniversary Special Edition" Mustang GT, which was the package beyond the badge ;).

Dan

2003 Cobra convertible With some stuff and things

Yea, but there are people out there that try to pass them off to unsuspecting buyers as a special edition becuse of a 35th Anniversary badge. I'm partial to special edition Mustangs since I've owned two, my current

10th Anniversary Cobra which is 1 of 2003 (1 of 257 in Silver) and before this 1 of 3091 '00 Spring Feature GT's which was more rare at only 252* in Black. *I can't remember actual number off the top of my head but I do know it was more rare.

I didn't "claim" to be anything. I only stated a fact that some people might not know. And yes, as someone else answered before I made my off subject post, the '99 Verts had factory bolt on subframes.

And BTW, FOUAH.......

Thanks for the info Dinsdale, it's definitely appreciated. The unibody on the car is straight. All of the damage I had as cosmetic and I only bumped the guard rail at around 15 - 20MPH. I had the car taken to a Ford dealer and aligned.