Here we go again

The person telling me that my car will get worse is correct. (1988 Pontiac

6000 2.5L) My SES came on this morning. I started the car today in the 7-degree weather. It turned over slow but started. I let the car warm up and went back inside. When I came back out, the SES light was on. It went out when I started driving. Checked the codes. It's reporting problems with the oxygen sensor, but guess what? I only did that back in October. It fixed the problem, but how could it be back already?

Codes reported: (Thanks to TroubleCodes.net)

12 (normal)

13 Oxygen sensor voltage stays between 0.35 and 0.55 volts for 3 seconds during closed loop operation and will set code after 40 seconds for Century and Cutlass Ciera. For the Lumina, the oxygen sensor voltage stays between

0.35 and 0.55 volts for 60 seconds during closed loop operation and will set code after 2 minutes. Both systems can go into open loop after 15 seconds.

44 Oxygen sensor voltage was under 0.2 volts for 60 seconds of closed loop operation.

45 Oxygen sensor voltage was above specification. Century and Cutlass Ciera was over 0.75 volts for 50 seconds in a closed loop. Lumina was over 0.7 volts for 30 seconds and throttle angle was between 3% and 45%.

Now, how could it be both over and under the voltage at the same time? It does clear the codes after a certain period of time, correct or is there no other way but to disconnect the battery? If it never clears itself, then that would explain why I have the extra codes. The code I haven't seen before is 45.

Reply to
Travis King
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Warning - anecdote from a non-mechanic follows:

I had an '86 6000LE that gave bad O2 sensor codes about the same time the valve cover gasket started to go bad (in that year or maybe that car, at least, a bad valve cover gasket meant oil everywhere). Having the gasket replaced, the compartment cleaned and anything oil fouled mopped up took care of it. Looking through receipts, I did replace two O2 sensors for outright failure in the ten years I owned it.

Feel free to disregard this anecdote when someone more knowledgable shows up.

Reply to
REP

You can remove the ECM fuse.

Reply to
John Bailo

Matter of fact, I've had several problems with my valve cover gasket as well, and yes, oil would leak all over the place. A nice size puddle of oil in the driveway and all over the engine. No, I don't have an oil leak now. It kept blowing valve cover gaskets as soon as you installed one. (Actually within a month or two.) It took silicone to fix it. (Instead of the valve cover gasket.) I've been going on the silicone for a year and a half with no problems so far. (at least as oil leaks are concerned.) The car does have a new problem come up probably every two or three weeks. (Hence why I should get rid of it if I could afford it.) The car is currently (probably) on its third oxygen sensor. (maybe more) The original one (or at least I assume the original since we bought the car when it was eight years old.). Then a year or two later after we got it, we pulled an O2 sensor out of my mom's old '86 Celebrity and put it in this car. (Since we were just about ready to get rid of the Celebrity anyway because it needed its second head job. After the person bought it and fixed it, it's still running today.) That one lasted all the way until October last year, and now this one is giving us a headache already. When we bought the car, it only at 60,000 miles on it and it already needed a fuel pump.

Reply to
Travis King

I had a drivability problem with my 1994 Pontiac TransSport 3.8 with a new engine installed. Traced it to a bad O2 sensor. Replaced it. 2 weeks later I had the same problem. Assumed it had to be something other than the O2 sensor. @ 1/2 years later got mad enough to put an aldl (OBD1) scanner onboard and datastream the vehicle continually to trap the error when it misbehaved. Found it. Guess what it was? Bad O2 sensor. So yes, not at all out of the realm of possibility.

New sensor #THREE finally solved the problem

Reply to
clare at snyder.on.ca

I know the '86 is infamous for the valve cover problem, but wasn't sure if the '88 had it, too. Pain in the ass.

And in the spark plugs.

Mine was 8 years old when I got it and immediately needed a new steering rack and tie rods. Other than replacing the valve cover gasket a lot (when it started dropping a cylinder, it was time) and putting in a few O2 sensors ... well, and timing gears four years before it finally got too old to do major fixes on anymore, I had nothing but joy with my

6000. Sorry yours is acting up; maybe this next sensor will be the last one it needs.
Reply to
REP

I have not had problems with the well-known timing gears... YET. The 2.5 is known for this and if they go, it will wreak havoc on the engine. It will probably happen sooner or later. The car is really doing well for me today but probably only today and possibly tomorrow because I was one of the few people at school today that I could say "ha ha! I didn't slide one bit!" (Yes, it's icy and snowy and just plain nasty here today.) The car did stall once on the way home. Actually, on the way out of the parking lot. Went to push on the gas and died. Oh well, that problem already existed on my list of 15 current problems with the car. (In a different post I did on here a few weeks back.)

Reply to
Travis King

Most engines will need to have the timing belt/chain/gears replaced at

120K miles or so (mine went around 150K). When they went out, the car just stopped and would not restart. It did not throw a rod or anything like what happens with belt- or chain-driven timing; there was no engine damage at all.

Not all the 2.4s have timing gears; some have chains. Mine was an "Iron Deuce."

Reply to
REP

That's fine. I just got another problem with the junker today. Dad discovered that I have an antifreeze leak. Yes, you can say that this is a normal old car problem, but we just got done fixing an antifreeze leak with that car a year ago, replacing ALL the hoses and cost $80 to do it ourselves. Everything we've fixed with that car seems to come back within a year or so. These are problems that we've run into more than once: Muffler (4 times) Oil leak (2 times) Oxygen sensor (3 times) Antifreeze leak (2 times) Water leak (when it rains) (2 times)

Mine says "4tech" if that means anything.

This antifreeze leak must be bigger because the last time, I really didn't notice a drop in the fluid levels but I am this time. About two or three weeks ago, I checked the fluid levels and all was well. Now, the antifreeze in the reservoir is right in the middle between add and full.

Reply to
Travis King

In a car that age, might be the radiator itself - especially if the car is running hot (even if not actually overheating). I don't recall how much replacing the radiator was in mine, but it was under $100.00 for someone else to do it.

Reply to
REP

I wouldn't be able to tell if it's running hot or hotter than normal because there's no temp gauge. Just a speedometer and a fuel gauge, plus the SES light, brake light, temp light, seat belt light, oil light, and volt light.

Reply to
Travis King

Yeah, mine was like that, too - only a TEMP light, no gauge. When mine ran hot, the "service engine soon" light came on. The one time it actually overheated, the TEMP light came on (along with every other damn light in the dash).

I wish I knew a good way to check the radiator, but I don't, other than to take it to where ever in your town advertises it's the "Best Place to Take a Leak."

Bad radiator cap might also be the culprit (not likely, but cheap enough to replace).

Reply to
REP

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