Obviously, he meant Oldsmobile. I bought an Olds and one month later GM announced they were killing off the division. I was recently thinking of getting a Saab. Glad I decided to check out this newsgroup and saw the link to that article. So long, Saab. I hardly knew ye.
MaltHound,
The on for my '96 Aero lists for $379. Where did you buy one for $299?
-Dima
To all of you guys who pointed out that Saab lost money after it was acquired by GM, I think, this is a bit unfair. I believe (even though I do not have the data handy) that Saab began to loose money even before that, and that is why Investor (the financial company who was one of the chief Saab owners, and represented an influential Swedish family) wanted to unload it. Anybody who wants to add to the history of the buyout, of the profitability of the Saab right before the buyout, please feel free, I would love to learn.
I think their main problem is that they never found a marketing niche for the car, big enough to keep it profitable. I personally think that mid-nineties "Find your own road" was a great slogan - but like in many other cases, they did not stuck it out. I once, in a moment of my madness, wrote an article about why I like Saabs for the Nines - US Saab Club magazine - but never sent it out. After I was done, I could summarize what I wrote in one sentence: "I like Saab because of its practically, sportiness, and most importantly, individuality." Find your own road, indeed.
-Dima
Ehhh...kind of like Apple, people have been predicting the imminint death of Saab for decades.
Well, I understand where you are coming from, but I fear it is based on the false premise that current GM Management cares a tinkers' damn where it claims to build a given car. They haven't for generations now and I don't think that will change unless some sort of Great Lakes Tsunami takes out Detroit.
Basically in any production brand they own outright - GM will *always* use a 5 cent part when a 10 cent part would do the job a lot better. They always have and they always will.
It is why first generation GM products usually look and often run better than later models. Moreover, you can bet your bottom dollar that the
*only* thing that actually separates 40% of all the GM rolling stock on the road today - is the price point for replacement parts in the dealer catalogue.In the case of SAAB, I always felt that GM joined up with SAAB in the first place to get a better handle on safety engineering and emissions as the United States started to mandate stronger rules in these areas. It was cheaper than buying a stake in Volvo - which wasn't as good at the time anyway.
SAAB badly needed the minority wedding to fix the Borg-Warner automatic transmission problems that had been plaguing them for years and were going to badly impact their Scania bus business if they didn't at least appear to do something radical.
GM, whatever else you have to say about them, really did make some of the toughest production automatic transmissions on the road - hunt around the Internet for TH400 transmissions. You'll be amazed what they turn up in.
Why they bought them outright remains a bit of a mystery to me at least - but then what do I know about it I suppose?
Anyway, at the end of the day, what I think GM is doing is eliminating all the mid-luxury models to pursue the platform engineering model promised by the Epsilon initiative. Basically - you and I are supposed to buy the same Malibu - but we get to choose between *a lot* of different packages and grill badges for our Malibu. One of which is unlikely to be a SAAB of any kind if the news reports are to believed.
This is really too bad because my Opel/SAAB 900 is actually a pretty sturdy machine. In fact, I would dearly have loved to take a crack at designing an even wider and flatter 21st century 9000 on the new magnesium beam Epsilon - but I fear that my design ideas will remain locked up in illustrator files on here my computer as pipe dreams.
It's OK though, I picked up a completely rust free 1993 9000 aero 5 speed last summer. With careful attention to my fellow drivers on the road and strict adherence to the maintenance schedule (plus a spare engine and whatever wrecker Aero spares I can pick up along the way) - I intend to have her follow me out to the Cemetery when I take that last GM ride in the Cadillac Station Wagon.. :/ ..
Cheers brother Axel.
With the exception of two "dealer" supplied batteries, with dead cells occurring during the first 15&35K miles, the rest of the problems occurred between roughly 40 and 75k miles. Three sets of pulleys and belts, ( all let go on the highway with no warning) one new set only lasted 10K when one of the new pulleys seised, one morning the belt tensioner broke; at about 38K : original belt and pulleys lasted 40K; the clutch master cyl collapsed at 45K ; at around 62 the slave cyl went; Starter was replaced at around 70 K and somewhere in between all that "crap" the alarm system locked out the engine management computer. I have been towed so often, I jokingly asked the tow truck driver for air miles.
pocket....guaranteed
What's the usual failure mode? One would think (hope?) that whoever manufactures the part would recognize the defect and redesign the part. It's simply unacceptable for a $400 part critical to the engine running to regularly fail under 100k miles.
A quick check on eEuroparts.com yields a $299 part:
John
Here is the response.
Thank you for expressing your concerns about the recent article concerning Saab. The article you read was one journalist's speculation and is not a reflection of the position of General Motors.
General Motors remains committed to the Saab brand. The global premium segment is one of the automotive industry's strongest growing segments and Saab is a vital part of General Motor's strategy to get its fair share in the segment. Saab is GM's only premium European brand and very well represented from a global standpoint. In addition, Saab is in the midst of our biggest product expansion in history and Saab customers are some of the most desirable in the industry.
GM Europe Chairman Fritz Henderson told reporters at the North American Auto Show " Saab is an important brand for General Motors. It is the only entry premium brand globally, it is one the few global brands we have, it is almost 100 percent conquest sales for General Motors. So it is of very high importance for us."
We appreciate your concern and care for the Saab brand. If you have any future concerns, please feel free to contact the Saab Customer Assistance Center Monday through Friday at 1 800-955-9007 between 8:00 a.m. and 8:00 p.m., EST.
Sincerely,
Mike Barmore SAAB Cars USA
Perhaps some manager told the engineer to design the component to fail around 100,000 miles. That way, the company could either make money selling the part and service or convince the customer to buy a new car. I know its a long stretch to think that a company like GM for example would even think of designing a car or component to fail at a certain point just to get the customer to buy the newer model or pay for an expensive repair . . .
However, think about the various "wear" components on a car. Brakes, rotors, clutches, belts, hoses, springs, spark plugs etc. These need routine replacement and not many people complain. Even the tailgate hinges on my 245 needed to replaced after only 20 years - I should complain :-)
I can't remember the web site, but it listed the number of Saabs sold in the US for every year. Prior to the GM purchase, Saab was able to sell every C900 brought to the US - even the lime green Saabs. This may reflect either a very good prediction of sales volume or Saab could not make enough cars to satisfy the demand. Does any one remember that web site?
Dima wrote:
But all those parts wear out gradually, you just don't hear of people getting stranded because their spark plugs failed or their brake rotors wore out. Hoses and belts both generally give plenty of warning that they're about to go and both can be patched up with generic off the shelf parts. The part in question here is something required for the car to move under it's own power, and that tends to fail abruptly and without warning. In many situations it's failure could be a serious safety issue.
What we need is a "mini SAAB" ... it worked for BMW :) ... in joke for the Apple people there ... check out their website.
You are right though ... people do demand a different product. Love us or hate us, Apple owners do not want a "PC"; that's why we bought Apple. What SAAB are offering is still basically a very good car - they do need to make it extra special and that can only come with an autonomous visionary leadership, which I doubt GM will counternance. ... but then, no-one believed Apple would have revived the way it did! Paul
Interesting. And "only" $289 for my 9-5 Aero. Thanks for the link! Gary
Sweet little box, I need one or ten I think. Would make a great webserver.
That's exactly what I'm saying. They are very similar in their approach, appeal, and qualities.
Dave Hinz
From what I've heard (here), you get a warning of crappy running for a day or week before, and then -nada-. I would be interested in hearing a listing of symptoms and mileage of cars where this happened, anyone want to post theirs?
From what I understand, the Saab DI uses a common Bosch component with many other European cars, which also have a limited life. Tires and belts don't last forever, either...
Dang clutch on my '88 900 Turbo wore out after only 220,000 miles. Good thing it's a quick fix, I wouldn't want to have to do that _every_ weekend.
"DI Cassette" - the direct ignition module. Sits on the valve cover, goes down to each of the spark plugs. Generates the high voltage and performs complex measurement of combustion chamber impedance and so on as part of the engine management system.
Dave Hinz
MotorsForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.