Got a ticket

got a ticket the other day for exhibition driving because the cop allegedly saw me "spin out" with my 02 automatic WRX. I asked him which tires he saw spin, and he said the front ones, just like every other import I see driving around. Then I asked if he was sure about that since my car is AWD. He looked at me kinda funny and said, well, I heard it, and I saw the front tire spin. I then proceded to tell him that I have launched this car many many times at a drag strip and never experienced any wheel spin, I asked if maybe what he heard was my BOV, since it kinda has a "bark-psssshhhhttttt" sound when it goes off. Again, funny look on his face. I then said, ok give me the ticket, I'll see you in court. Blank white look on his face, but he gives me the ticket anyway.

Do you think it would be to my benefit to bring a video of me launching at a racetrack and having ZERO wheel spin as proof that my car didn't do what he said it did?

Reply to
WRXtreme
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Probably not. FWIW, you probably deserved the ticket for something you did in your WRX within a couple of hours of your ticket :>

Reply to
Rob Munach

I'm no lawyer, but making it know that you regularly visit the drag strip in your car is unlikely to persuade a judge into thinking that you couldn't have possibly been guilty of exhibition driving.

-- Todd H.

2001 Legacy Outback Wagon, 2.5L H-4 Chicago, Illinois USA
Reply to
Todd H.

I'm not a lawyer, but I would think that, if you are going to fight the ticket in court, what you need is an "expert" to testify on your behalf that your car wouldn't -- couldn't? -- spin the wheels, expecially not just the front wheels. Perhaps a Subaru mechanic who has roadtested your car. My point is that whatever you say is just your biased opinion as opposed to expert and independent testimony.

Ed P

Reply to
Ed P

No. I doubt it. But you may have an argument with the AWD thing. Chances are that you could have got the ticket without spinning out. Launching too hard on the street - wheelspin or not - is still grounds for a potential ticket.

I'd go with the AWD argument if you're going to fight the ticket. Explain that a noticeable wheelspin at the front wheels would have been accompanied by some wheelspin of the rears. Ask if there were any marks left on the road by YOUR vehicle. (Better yet, take some pictures of the road where this allegedly happened showing NO marks, and bring them with you to court).

You might offer the judge a demonstration [1] (at a suitable off road location), but that may sound snarky and cheeky, and get him to rule against you based on your attitude. If you have footage of a WRX (not your own) racing a FWD car at a dragstrip showing differences in wheelspin, that might be ok, but I doubt it would count for anything.

[1] I know of a story where a cop ticketed a motorcycle for failure to stop at a stopsign because they didn't put their feet down. In his mind, if the foot didn't go down, they didn't stop. This particular rider was a rather accomplished rider, and in court offered the judge a demonstration. They all went outside to the bike, and the rider proceeded to ride to a stop in front of the judge. They then balanced for over a minute at a dead stop with no feet down. The judge returned to the courtroom and threw out the ticket.
Reply to
Cam Penner

Excellent call. You need a qualified expert witness. Preferably a factory trained Subaru mechanic. With his certification certificates with him. Unfortunately, supplying such a witness - if you don't have contacts - is likely to cost more than the ticket. You are still SOL if the cop bases his "reason" for the ticket on more than just the alleged wheelspin. If you can disprove the wheelspin, you certainly can try for "reasonable doubt" on the rest of the grounds for the ticket as well.

Reply to
Cam Penner

What's the fine $ ?

Reply to
Brian Fox

Your best bet would have been to carry a tape recorder with you and to have it running when you talked to him.

It's useful for when he changes his story in court.

NOW I carry a tape recorder in my car.

*mutter* Lying sack of crap. *mutter*

-DanD

Reply to
Dan Duncan

Unless your right to drive is at stake, fighting a traffic ticket is generally futile. The couts are very busy, and judges look with displeasure at anyone cluttering up their docket with what they consider insignificant charges.

If you win, which is highly unlikely, you will become a priority target of the local gendarmes for some time to come...they don't enjoy looking foolish in court. Take it from someone who has been around the block a time or three, pay the fine with a big smile on your face, and put the whole mess behind you.

George Adams

"All good fishermen stay young until they die, for fishing is the only dream of youth that doth not grow stale with age." ---- J.W Muller

Reply to
George Adams

I would suggest bringing a tape of your car with you doing a drag strip launch. I'd also have on the tape a street launch where your blowoff valve is clearly audible and your vehicle doing a street launch where you never exceed the speed limit. However, I wouldn't let them know you have the tape for evidence unless things looked pretty bad for your case. Also, you can say (if it's true) that you do your performance driving on a track and not on public roads. Again, I wouldn't say this right off the bat. You could also throw in the fact that Subaru encourages use on the track by giving new WRX owners a free one year membership to the SCCA, which is a responsible racing organization.

Be careful, be quick, and show respect to everyone in the court.

- Byron '02 WRX wagon who somehow missed my free SCCA membership

Reply to
Byron

for exhibition of speed, probably pretty substantial, with points to match.

Steve

Reply to
CompUser

The correct response to the law enforcement officer would go something like this. But first look at his collar or shoulders for any signs of rank; chevrons=sgt. - single bar=lieutenant - two bars=captain or if he is a state trooper such as in ohio, address him as Trooper if he doesn't have any of the above.

" I'm sorry ( officer, patrolman, sgt. lieutenant, trooper ) [ insert his last name here which can be had by looking at the name tag on his uniform .] But I purchased this car for one reason and one reason only; it's all wheel drive and will not spin any of its tires on dry pavement. I'm sorry if I inconvenienced you. But if you feel I did something wrong, I'll gladly accept the traffic citation."

Make no admission of guilt, be sure to use the information he stated to you about "the front wheels like every other import I see driving around," and then bring the manual with you to court. It's quite simple. Explain the situation in front of a judge, don't argue your case to the officer on the street, argue in court. Remember, this guy has people lying to him at least

8 hours a day. While in court, invite the judge or any law enforcement officer to drive your car to see for themselves if they don't believe you. And you don't need an attorney for traffic court. A little politeness goes a long way.

But I think you really burned yourself when you brought up the drag strip scenario which goes to your character of being possibly reckless, and may lead the judge to believe you were perhaps recklessly operating your motor vehicle and the officer gave you a break by writing you a ticket for a violation that carried with it a lesser point violation and lesser fine.

Take you chances in court. My prediction - you'll be found guilty, fine, and costs and points. But hey, .....Take a chance.

As far as the video of you and your car at the drag strip - YOU'VE GOT TO BE FREAKIN' KIDDIN' ME! I CAN'T EVEN BELIEVE YOU SAID THIS TO THAT POLICEMAN!!!!!!!!!!

Reply to
Guido

Not necessarily.

Depends on how he couches it.

If he introduces it along the lines that he keeps his racing on the track, and off the road...it could be well received.

Steve

Reply to
CompUser

Baloney. *That* is what _traffic courts_ are there for, and that's ALL they hear. I've seen very few people who disputed a cite not receive at least a *reduction* in their fine.

"Winning" in traffic court isn't black & white. There's the possibility of reduced fine, diversion, and of course dismissal, which might be attainable in his case, if one of the elements of the charge is "breaking traction".

Geeze...get real!

Yeah, they'll risk their careers over a dismissed traffic ticket...uh huh.

Based on what he's said, he's _not guilty_ of the charge. I'd be severely annoyed with that.

Steve

Reply to
CompUser

I'd go to court with all the stuff mentioned and hope the pig doesn't show up...charges dismissed! TG

Reply to
TG

I would focus on the biased, prejudiced not to mention illogically fallacious comment about imports and front wheels spinning. Just because some imports front wheels spin does not mean that the Subaru's wheels spin just because it is an import. Then I would provide detailed information about the Subaru AWD system and how you specifically bought it because the wheels are electronically controlled to prevent wheelspin. Then offer a demonstration after that.

Most likely the cop won't even show up anyway. It's too bad they don't make them go to college and actually learn inductive and deductive reasoning instead of being able to roam the country side using logical fallacies and prejudiced opinions.

Reply to
Henry Paul

I am a lawyer and, while the expert witness idea might work, it might not. More important, an expert will cost you a lot more than the ticket. If you have the time to fight it, your best bet is to simply explain to the judge what you explained to us.

Good luck.

-LK

Reply to
L. Kreh

IME, exhibition tickets are hard to beat. I saw one where the guy was driving an old Ford pickup (6 cyl, stick) and made a right turn onto an uphill section. The intersection was full of sand, and even though the fellow was going rather slowly, all you guys who drive pickups know what happened next. Inside rear wheel chirped. That truck could barely make the speed limit, let alone be an "exhibitionist's choice." Cop didn't want to hear any of it. Judge DID listen to the story and tossed the ticket, but you never know.

If you can get video or somebody from Subaru to back you up, it might help. Personally, if traffic school (fine, yes, points, no) is available to you, I'd consider it. If the judge has seen any WRX ads on TV, he might side with the cop automatically.

And if there's a next time, when talking with the cop, remember "you have the right to remain silent. Now USE it!" They don't want to hear your stories on the street.

Rick

Reply to
Rick Courtright

But be prepared and be polite. I knew a guy that wasn't prepared (he was counting on the officer not being there) for his court date. His fine was doubled.

Reply to
Cam Penner

We don't have "Traffic Courts" where I live. Moving violations go on the docket with all other district court charges. If you intend to go the court route here, you better be very well prepared, and at least consult a lawyer to nget his opinion as to your chances of beating the charge. If it's a "he said - she said" kind of deal, you will lose, and the judge will be very annoyed that you took up his time.

Real depends on ehere you live. In a large city, you will get lost in the crowd, and the above likely won't apply. If you live in a small town, you will be watched closely, and sooner or later, they'll bag you.

Who said anything about risking their careers? They won't invent anything, but I have little doubt they could eventually find charges that will stick. There not going to relenlessly hound the guy, or harass him, but he will definitely be on their radar, and will get close scrutiny when they see him out and about.

Key words there are "based on what he said". Based on what you said, no cop would risk his career citing someone on false charges. Why is this case any different? 'Cause the guy was driving a Subie? .....Get real!

George Adams

"All good fishermen stay young until they die, for fishing is the only dream of youth that doth not grow stale with age." ---- J.W Muller

Reply to
George Adams

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