Conventional oil hard to find?

Mostly it gets better. But I notice that you completely removed all of my points about ZDDP.

The base oil gets better, but the additive package changes in ways that may or may not be an improvement depending on your requirements.

--scott

I know exactly what the links said. It's someone else who said the links didn't say what I said they said.

I'm not a believer in bullshit as you can probably tell by now.

Nothing wrong with replacing your oil & filter every day of the week. That's why I said it's OK whatever schedule others used.

Alls I said was the manufacturers often recommend every other interval. Those who refuted that fact didn't produce a single reference.

I produced five. Alls I'm saying is you can replace your filter on any schedule you like.

But don't claim manufacturers don't recommend every other oil change. Everyone who claimed that so far has pulled it out of their asses.

That's all I'm saying. You do what you want. I do what I want. I follow what the manufacturer recommends. (1) I choose good oil (lasts longer than the manufacturers recommendation) (2) I choose good filters (they last longer than the oil change interval)

Of course it says that. It says what I said it said even though some dufus said it didn't say that.

Alls people are doing is pulling out recommendations from their own ass. Nobody but me has supplied any references from manufacturers & manuals.

You do what you want to do. I will continue to follow the manufacturers recommendation. And I will continue to choose the best oil and oil filters I can figure out.

The only thing new to me is the huge number of synthetic oil specs. I don't know how to choose a good synthetic oil yet.

There are too many specs to try to figure out at this point. ACEA A1/B1, A5/B5, A3/B4 A5/B5-10, A5/B5-12 API SN, SN Plus, SN-RC, SM, SL, SP BMW LL-01, LL-04 Chrysler MS 6395 FIAT 9.55535-H2, FIAT 9.55535-M2, FIAT 9.55535-N2 Ford WSS-M2C153-H, WSS-M2C929-A, WSS-M2C930-A, WSS-M2C945-A, WSS-M2C946-A, WSS-M2C947-A GM-Opel LL B-025 GM 4718M, 6094M, LL-A-025, dexos1 Gen 2, Gen 3 Honda HTO-06 ILSAC GF-5, GF-4, GF-3 MB-Approval 229.5 Porsche A40 Renault RN0700, RN0710 VW 502 00 - 505 00

Like I said many times before you do what you want to do with your oil.

But don't tell me my references don't say what I knows they say. I didn't post the references without reading them first.

You alls pulled out everything you said from your own asses.

That's OK. But what you pulled out of your asses is not what my manuals say.

Just don't tell me my service manual don't say what I knows it says. Everything most of you said you pulled out of your asses.

I'm not a believer in bullshit as you can probably tell by now.

Yet I'm new to buying synthetic at ~$2.50/qt so alls I want to know now is how to tell the difference for sure between any two synthetics.

Does anyone here know how to tell one synthetic from another?

I agree. The API rating that I use most don't get worse. The API quality rating started with SA/SB/SC and now it's SP (afaict).

I will say that I don't have a good way to compare all the standards though. ACEA A1/B1, A5/B5, A3/B4 A5/B5-10, A5/B5-12 API SN, SN Plus, SN-RC, SM, SL, SP BMW LL-01, LL-04 Chrysler MS 6395 FIAT 9.55535-H2, FIAT 9.55535-M2, FIAT 9.55535-N2 Ford WSS-M2C153-H, WSS-M2C929-A, WSS-M2C930-A, WSS-M2C945-A, WSS-M2C946-A, WSS-M2C947-A GM-Opel LL B-025 GM 4718M, 6094M, LL-A-025, dexos1 Gen 2, Gen 3 Honda HTO-06 ILSAC GF-5, GF-4, GF-3 MB-Approval 229.5 Porsche A40 Renault RN0700, RN0710 VW 502 00 - 505 00

Do you?

Do you own a diesel?

Does your gasoline engine vehicle have a modern cat? Does your state do periodic smog inspections on that vehicle with a cat?

To your point I was a Detroit owner until I bought my first Japanese sedan. Had a few German sedans in between but Japanese models never broke on me. As I age I don't have time for Detroit garbage nor even German complexity.

What I need now that I'm shifting from conventional to synthetic is a good way to tell the quality of any two oils from just the packages in my hands.

As you can tell by now I don't get my facts out of my ass so I'm willingly admitting openly that I don't yet know how to compare any two synthetics.

Do you? Does anyone?

How?

No, but I often drive older cars with tappet bearings, and that includes my daily driver. Oils formulated for diesel engines are likely closer to the oil they were originally designed for, however.

No on both counts.

--scott

Same way you compare any two oils. Viscosity breakdown with time, viscosity curve with temperature, adhesion, solvent characteristics, ability to keep particulates in solution, three-ball test, etc.

There are standards for all this stuff and in general the European standards are tighter than the US ones. It's interesting to look across a given line... for example, the Castrol Syntec 10W-40 meets the latest European standards but the 10W-30 and 10W-50 formulations do not.

--scott

If a synthetic meets the requirements of your car it will be suitable. Synthetics are superior to conventional.

As to Brand X vs Brand Y, I've seen some "tests" but nothing meaningful. One YouTube video was a given amount of oil spilled on a track and the time to run down measured. Huh? Has nothing to do with performance in your engine at 6000 rpm.

A real test would be a series of sleeve bearings run for many hours, each with a different brand of the same viscosity oil and the shaft and bearing measured for wear. Another could be the power required to turn a shaft at a given speed using different oils.

I'm sure there may be minor differences but I don't think any would be a bad choice.

Alls you have is the jug in your hand when you're at the store.

Do you know of any real reviews (unbiased, not shills, not bullshit)?

All oils "breakdown with time."

Nothing wrong with replacing oil every single day but I'm asking about specifications for synthetic oil when the factory shop manual is followed.

As the saying goes the problem is there are so many standards. :)

ACEA A1/B1, A5/B5, A3/B4 A5/B5-10, A5/B5-12

API SN, SN Plus, SN-RC, SM, SL, SP BMW LL-01, LL-04 Chrysler MS 6395 FIAT 9.55535-H2, FIAT 9.55535-M2, FIAT 9.55535-N2 Ford WSS-M2C153-H, WSS-M2C929-A, WSS-M2C930-A, WSS-M2C945-A, WSS-M2C946-A, WSS-M2C947-A GM-Opel LL B-025 GM 4718M, 6094M, LL-A-025, dexos1 Gen 2, Gen 3 Honda HTO-06 ILSAC GF-5, GF-4, GF-3 MB-Approval 229.5 Porsche A40 Renault RN0700, RN0710 VW 502 00 - 505 00 Alls I want is to be able to compare the oils I see in the USA stores.

Most people compare by price or brand or marketing bullshit but that's not me. I wish to compare by what matters.

I just don't know yet how to compare by quality for various synthetics. I'll give the manufacturers a call starting with what's at Costco today.

Kirkland (Warren Distribution is the blender in Omaha Nebraska). (800)825-1235

Mobil 1

Both are around $2.50 to around $3.00 per quart so price isn't the issue. Both have the same specs on the container so I need to ask them more.

The issue is making a good decision but on this newsgroup almost everything I've heard people are pulling out of their assholes. Some dufuses even refuted what the articles said saying they didn't say what they said while one pussy claimed shop manuals didn't say what they say without producing any evidence at all.

As I've repeatedly said you can choose and change your oil on any metric you like but just don't try to bullshit me & we will do fine.

I am not afraid to say that I do NOT yet know how to choose between any two synthetic oils based on whats on the outside of the jug yet.

Alls I'm asking is if anyone here knows something about that choice so that it can be made based on what's printed on the jug itself.

If it's not going to be printed on the jug itself then alls we need is a reliable web site that isn't a shill that doesn't spew bullshit and which actually tests oil for what matters.

Is that asking for too much from this newsgroup?

You never supplied any evidence for your OFTEN claim.

Which doesn’t qualify as OFTEN.

mike snipped-for-privacy@address.is.invalid> wrote

Nope, you can research what the store has online before you go there.

The certification tests.

Yes, but some to that slower than others.

But some are better than others with oils.

Yes. I don't think such a site exists.

So, do the tests and put it up.

Don't complain that information is missing from the internet. Information only gets on the internet because people like you and I put it there.

--scott

There is plenty of information already on filter teardowns and conventional oil so what we need I think is only a good place to get unbiased synthetic oil comparisons which I always start with the specs and move up from there.

Trusting you said the euro specs seem to be better this is I think a good overall summary of the different euro specifications I'll put on my phone.

Luckily a lot of people have asked the question I asked as here are some questions and answers for the synthetics sold by Costco in the USA

The UK people have a different set of oils to be looking at

Most of these synthetic motor oil comparison reviews appear to be shills

This is perhaps the best I've found so far What have you found?

Yes, that's why you test it. It's been forty years since I took tribo class, but at the time there was a standard measurement with a rotating drum inside a stationary drum that creates high shear on the test sample. You measure viscosity regularly and plot it against time.

Clean linear paraffin oils did well on the test, oils with a lot of crosslinking or rings did poorly.

You'd think a "synthetic oil" base would be pure linear paraffin chains with a very narrow range of molecular weights and you might be right or you might be terribly wrong, depending. Also, of course, the VI breaks down, not just the base oil.

--scott

Of course.

Under the logic of most people here they should replace the oil daily. That's because it breaks down daily.

The filter too. Every day you replace the oil & filter and they won't break down too much.

But that's not the way the world works. Instead you follow whatever specs your manufacturer recommends you follow.

That's why specifications matter. That's why the specs that matter are usually printed on the oil container.

It's not a matter of price or convenience which most others claimed it was. It's a matter of knowledge and understanding of meaningful specifications.

Alls these other people know are dollar bills. They make all their decisions based only on money.

That's fine. It works for them.

But I like to make my decisions based on an understanding of the product. And specs are part of that understanding of the product (for synthetic oil).

I am wide open about not knowing how to compare two different synthetics. At least not yet.

I don't see anyone else here who knows anything about synthetic oil though.

Everything almost everyone else said they pulled out of their own assholes. Especially the ones who claimed it was all about money and not about specs.

They can't understand what the product is as they only understand money. Everyone understands money (even me) so it's easy (for them) to decide.

But I like to make my decisions based on meaningfully relevent specifications which I openly admit I don't know what they are just yet.

But neither does anyone else (at least not those who have responded). So I guess I'm on my own.

Isn't all that supposed to be encompassed meaningfully within the oil spec?

I tried calling both Chevron & Warren Distribution but I'll have to wait till Monday to get their technical people on the line.

Sometimes they tell us a lot and sometimes they just spit out the advertising so it's a crap shoot whether or not that call will bear fruit.

I think the best test so far of the Kirkland synthetic oil was this one.

And I think the best single description of the (euro) specs is this one. If you have something better by all means please let me and all know.

Oil in the engine is undergoing a continuous breakdown process. Actually, if the truth be known, it is the additives in the oil which are breaking down. So, when dealing with oil change intervals, two factors need to be considered; additive depletion and oil contamination. These are like the proverbial piece of string - there is no hard and fast rule on when additives are sufficiently depleted or the oil sufficiently contaminated to warrant an oil change. Ditto for the oil filter.

When I was an apprentice, and later, a rule of thumb, backed by the vehicle owner manuals, was an oil change every 5,000 km (3,000 mi) with a filter change every 10,000 km (6,000 mi). This was the norm for the average 6 cylinder vehicles (GM, Ford, Chrysler) of the day, 4 cylinder vehicles had more frequent oil changes.

What has happened since then? Oils (and their additives) have improved out of sight. Also, engine ventilation systems (PCV) have improved vastly. This has extended the oil change intervals. My car, a Toyota, has the oil *and* filter change interval *recommended* by the manufacturer at 10,000 km (6,000 mi). So, the oil change interval has been doubled but the oil filter change interval seems to have remained static.

What seems to have been forgotten here is that the recommended oil change interval will depend on the use made of the vehicle. If you do a lot of short runs where the engine never warms up sufficiently, you will experience greater wear factors and increased oil contamination requiring shorter than recommended oil change interval. Will that impact the filter change interval? Maybe. It really depends on the filter capacity - the point at which the filter will block up and commence bypass. A large filter of, say, 1 litre (1 quart) capacity might not need to be changed more frequently. On the other hand, a small filter with half or a quarter of the capacity might need to have a more frequent change interval.

My Toyota, at 5 years of age and with over 100,000 km clocked up, has servicing at factory recommended intervals. My wife's car, on the other hand, has only done 40,000 km in the same time interval. It gets its servicing, including oil and filter changes, done by *time*. In other words, it gets an oil change and filter every 6 months *regardless* of what's on the odometer.

Manufacturer's specs are a *guide* only. Servicing intervals are dictated by many variables - there is no hard and fast service interval.

For most laypeople, the specs on, say, the oil, are totally meaningless. I don't get anal about oil specs. If the oil I buy meets the *minimum* spec recommended by the car manufacturer, then that's what I go with. No point in going with a more expensive or more highly speced oil if your engine cannot benefit from the increased capability.

I make my decisions based on the car manufacturer's requirements. I figure they would have a clue about what works in engines they manufacture.

Why do you get so anal about oil specs? Pick an oil that matches your vehicle manufacturer's minimum spec and you're good to go.

That’s the way he is, its Arlen Holder with a new nick.

You and I are the only ones who understood that oil and oil filters don't necessarily wear at the same rate at all times under all conditions.

Everyone else made all their decisions based on purely money & convenience. To them any thought outside of money & convenience would be "anal" to them.

None of them even understood that the articles I listed said what they said. Some even said the articles didn't say what the articles definitely said.

To them to UNDERSTAND what an article said is "being anal" about it. That's because all they know is money and convenience (and they said so).

That girl even claimed factory manuals don't say what they say. To that girl anything that a shop manual says would be anal to her.

Her mind is set forever at whatever she feels her mind should be set at. Anything else (like understanding what the articles said) would be "anal."

I said many times it would be hard to find a bad oil and a bad oil filter although I also noted what to look for in that oil and in that filter.

(Also I mentioned that certain oil additives could damage a catalytic converter when people brought up the zinc additives which is clearly something none of them had ever heard or thought about in their lives).

All they ever cared about (and they said so) was their money & convenience. They said it many times that this was all they ever considered.

How can you NOT be considered anal with people THAT thoughtfully shallow?

To them just UNDERSTANDING something is being "anal" about it. They couldn't even understand after many prompts what an article said.

Who is that ignorant to REPEATEDLY fail to understand those articles? They REPEATEDLY failed to understand what the shop manuals actually say.

Why are they so ignorant? All they cared about was their money and their convenience.

That's why.

At least they were very clear about that being the only thing that mattered. Which is why anything more than that is to them being "anal" about it.

To understand oil & filters & service intervals was way too much for them. To understand anything at greater than the level of money is "anal" to them.

Another dead giveaway, Arlen.

Another dead giveaway, Arlen.

Another dead giveaway, Arlen.