Replacing front tires

You never turn on the street? Never change lanes?

Drive a mustang in the snow sometime. Let me know if you find the limits of worn tires.

You have posted nothing to support your position. You lose.

Too bad that front and rear track widths negate some of the wipe, that tires don't really "wipe" it anyway - all-season tires are required to have 25% empty space. Too bad that you haven't driven an Acura NSX with legal but well-worn rear tires in the rain and experienced oversteer conditions due to hydroplaning.

Too bad that everything you've said is utter tripe and contrary to what every expert says.

FloydR

It's *doubly important* to have grippy tyres on the rear of a FWD car because of the issues of lack of control that occur if the rear 'steps out' !

It is not by any means about the rear tyres just 'following around' at all.

Graham

That is understeer, unless you're not trying to turn. Most untrained drivers instinctively let off the throttle when it happens. Since that results in loss of speed as well as some degree of weight transition to the front, the front tires regain traction.

What about straightening it out?

I guess I was assuming that the hydroplaning was ocurring on a straightaway, since the OP was here to ask us about it :)

nate

You have obviously never driven a front wheel drive car in snow or ice.

Roads do curve and bald/low tread rear tires 'will' float out faster than you can blink.

Mike

That's just what I was going to write. Unless you're moving in a perfectly straight line or have four wheel steering, the rear tires are going to take a different track from the front tires whenever you move the steering wheel, even for something as slight as changing lanes.

The most obvious example of the problems with this lack of rear traction can be seen in the snow or on ice, where you can find yourself facing the direction you were coming from in a fraction of a second (Google "snap oversteer").

The few times we've had any accumulation of snow, I've done this for fun in snowy parking lots in a FWD with snow tires on the front and worn no-seasons on the rear. Without traction in the rear it'll stick the front end and pivot around it, spinning the car like a top.

It's not just snow, though. I've also seen it happen on the freeway in Seattle's typical light rain conditions: A lady was just driving her FWD econobox along in the center lane ahead and to the left of me. She makes to change lanes to the left lane, and almost faster than you could see she's suddenly sliding down the road backwards at ~65 MPH. You should have seen the look on her face! Thankfully, she either didn't panic and did the right thing or just completely froze with fear, because she didn't try to steer at all and (as I watched in the mirror) just slid to a stop mostly in the left shoulder, having not hit anything including the guardrail or any other cars.

Long story short, in a FWD car, you don't want to skimp on the rear tires.

I grew up in PA; I know how to drive in snow.

So then you knew that your statement about people not finding the limits of even worn tires is false.

Not at all. I know that people who know how to drive (and more importantly, their limits in circumstances they are unfamiliar with) don't seem to have the problems you evidently have.

Since when is the people you know who know how to drive, most drivers? Of course these experts (provided they are such) of yours won't be driving cars with mismatched tires in the first place, they won't be driving in the snow with 2/32nds tread depth either. And they certainly wouldn't be driving around with worn tires on the rear and new ones on the front.

If you think most people won't reach the limits of car with worn tires, think again. Most people don't know where their or their car's limits are. And they could very easily, and often do find them when tires are worn down and road conditions diminish.

There is no way in hell, you are going to take a V8 mustang into the snow with 2/32nds of tread on the tires and not find the limits. You'll find the limits real quick, long before you reach a residential speed limit. Probably before the end of the driveway. If you think 'most people' drive under 5mph all the time, they'll find the limits of worn tires.

Go ahead put some worn out tires on the rear of a car and new ones on the front and have at it. Just don't hurt anyone else or their property in the process.

And personally, I don't have problems, but I am not the one advocating tires of mismatched wear with the much more worn ones on the rear.

People that know how to drive don't make asinine statements like "Most people never get anywhere near the limits of even worn tires." There are days, even here in DC-land, where backing out of the driveway uses most of the available traction. Those days, you either have to a) know how to drive, and make sure your car is set up properly - this means good tires, correctly placed - or b) don't go anywhere.

nate

..do yourself a favor, watch the video. I do not like Michelin tires, but I bet this video is based on the very serious research. And they do not have any selling interest in the issue. I'm converted now - if I have to replace only two tires, new ones go to the back. Period.

It's the limiting case of understeer. Understeer is when the front tires are slipping more than the rear tires.

Not in the dry. But in the rain they do. Mostly when stopping, but on curves too. Add a little ice or snow to the mix and lots of people exceed the limits of their tires.

It's pretty hard to make your typical front-wheel drive car exhibit static oversteer because the weight balance is so heavily forward. But bad enough tires on the rear will do it.