OT Congestion fee, It's about time

This already exiists in London. (Maybe other cities, not sure...)

Too broad of a statement. Many can; many can't. Say a person drives into Midtown... 240 days/year (subtr. out weekends, holidays, 2 weeks of vacation time...), multiply that by 8 = ~$2K/year. Generally costs the earth to rent or own in Manhattan, to begin with. Most Manhattanites already take mass transit &/or walk; many don't own a car or even have a license, & therefore wouldn't affect them. I don't know about the other 4 boroughs - I would

*guess* that most also take mass transit into Manhattan. If they don't, subtract out the bridge or tunnel fees & what's the balance? (I don't know.) Then, what about tourists who drive in & stay in Midtown, & already pay plenty ea. day for parking? Otherwise, the present proposed exemptions look good at first glance.

I wonder about Downtown/the Wall Street area? It (article quoted below) says "Midtown", yet also just says "belown 86th St." Proposed fee goes all the way down to southern tip, or stops at... 14th St., or farther down at Houston, or Canal?? Doesn't say.

Cathy

I thought NY had subways. Buses? Isn't mass transit the option here? It's obvious something has to be done. There are too many cars. So what other solution comes to mind?

Huh?? Of course NYC has subways & buses. I talked about mass transit - very clearly - in my post, quoted above. Twice.

As an aside: The only area that's really lacking in subway service is the eastern edge of Manhattan, but I've read about a possible 2nd Ave. line being considered. Of course, bus service is available in those neighborhoods, but it's slower than taking the subway.

I was looking at the issue from both sides. You said "They can afford it." I countered that blanket statement, but also looked at it from the other POV.

Cathy

So then, you don't know what else can be done? No better solutions? That's the case then it looks like the eight dollar fee will be inacted. Those that can't afford it will have to find work elswhere.

BTW, where is B&H Photo, is that some where in Manhattan? Here's their address:

420 9th Ave

They are a couple of blocks from the Javits Center.

Enacted. Anyway... this is the first I've heard of it... haven't thought it through much, to say the least - just thinking of both sides of the issue off the top of my head.

Oh, right...

Yes, it's on the west side of Manhattan, 2 (long) blocks east of the Jacob Javits Center; AFAICT, below Port Authority but above the P.O., around 34th St. If you know where Madison Sq. Garden is, it's probably a couple of blocks NW of there. Plug it into Google Maps, or whatever.

Right.

Cathy

I was testing you.

your eyes must be tired from all of that rolling.

That's my favorite photo dealer. Good folks, very good to deal with. Very competitive prices.

It's west of MSG on either 34th or 33th St. I walked passed it on my way to the Auto Show a couple of weeks ago.

Google maps will tell exactly where.

It is south of the Port Authority Bus Terminal. Below the bus terminal is the A, C and E subway lines. I used to ride into the Port Authority every day for about 2 years, until my company moved from Times Square to the Chelsea and there was a storm. The roads were a mess. I took the PATH and NJ Transit trains after that, because it turned out to be a better and faster ride than the buses followed by the subway.

Jeff

So... in that case, do you know if the P.O. is going to become Penn Station? I heard rumors of this a good couple of years ago.

Cathy (I'm way upstate)

There are plans for that now. My understanding is that NJ Transit wants to move all of its trains in NYC to the new station. It doesn't like sharing tracks with Amtrak and the MTA. It wants to be the owner and control its own trains better. The NJ Transit Authority is planning on making a new tunnel under the river for more commuter trains (the tunnel going to Penn Station is an Amtrak tunnel and is at capacity); the other tunnels going under the river for trains are PATH trains going to near Penn Station (33rd St from Hoboken) and WTC from Hoboken, Newark and other place on the PATH system, about 6 in all.

Mayor Blummberg is proposing freight train tracks under the river, too, to relive congestion in the city, and probably take out the trash, too.

I don't know what the state of the plans are the moment. You can go to the New Jersey Transit web page (njtransit.com, I think) to get the latest.

Jeff

When you mentioned taking the PATH trains, I figured you might know about this. :-)

Do any of the NJ trains currently use Grand Central, then? (I somehow thought they all used Penn Station, along w/ Amtrak.)

What would happen to the present Penn Station space, do you know? And what would happen with the P.O.? Or would the new station be only underground space, with enough sq. footage upstairs for the P.O. to remain in place? I've never been inside the P.O. building, but it's certainly impressive & grand looking - rather classical - from the outside.

I never knew the old Penn Sta. - the one before this present one. Considering how beautiful Grand Central is again - thank you, Jackie O! (I remember its dingy 70's days), I rather wish I had...

It doesn't like sharing

Where's all the trash going? (Fresh Kills is filled, isn't it? Or no?)

Thanks; I might.

Cathy

Their problems stem from the fact they have the money to strangle themselves with more problems. Thank god there isn't enough cement in this world to high-rise the whole United States.

But the're working at it.

Not all that long ago, NYC was in very deep do-do, financially. Took the last couple of mayors to help get it out of its hole.

Why is NYC - well, just Manhattan really - so high-rise (excepting the Village, SoHo, etc. neighborhoods)? Because it's an island of approx. 2 x12 miles, at its widest x longest points. If a city can't spread out, it spreads up. Obviously.

Cathy

Or you get the hell out of the damned place....

If you hate living in a big city, yes. If you love it, no. I love visiting NYC, but don't think I'd want to live there.

Cathy

The only thing worth visiting NYC is B & H Photo, and they have an excellent Internet site....so no reason at all to visit.

When I drive to Mass, I'll do anything to miss Washington Baltimore Philly and NYC.....

Well, let's see... there's the Metropolitan Museum of Art - I've been there maybe 6 times & don't think I've seen it all yet, partly because there are sections I tend to revisit - the American Wing with its Frank Lloyd Wright room and its super-lovely courtyard, the Egyptian Wing, the European paintings; the observation deck of the ESB - not to mention the gorgeous marble of the lobby; Central Park - which has been renovated portion by portion & is diverse & beautiful - and most importantly being *used*; the Guggenheim; the Museum of Natural History; the Public Library (inside & out) - & Bryant Park to its rear; MSG (concerts, in my case - not into sports); Carnegie Hall; Grand Central Terminal - even if not taking a train in or out, the place is absolutely beautiful; wandering around downtown in the historic financial district where the streets have none of the grid layout. Then the architecture in general - look up even just as far as the

2- 3rd stories & notice the cool friezes; the beautiful Art Deco of Rockefeller Center... And this doesn't even include the theater scene or the Met (opera at Lincoln Center) - which are not particularly my own cups of tea. Nor does it incl. a myriad of other venues & activities - the Brooklyn Botanical Gardens, the Bronx Zoo, the Frick... and on & on.

IMO you're missing out on a *lot*. I have a bunch of "still want to see" items on my NYC list which I hope to eventually get to.

Driving from point A to B is a whole different story - if it's at all possible, no one wants to get tied up in city traffic.

Cathy

Is it safe to go jogging in central park yet?

Yes. Has been, for years. 1) NYC is way down on the list of high-crime/dangerous cities in the US. 2) Last time I checked, the Central Park precinct has the lowest crime rate of all of the precincts in the city.

OTOH, just using common sense - I don't go walking in CP alone after dark.

Cathy