Toyota Quality ?

4 years is not 90 days.

4 year data I would respect, especially since most comprehensive warranties are gone by then.

The four year US average is not a misleading statistic, it applies to retail buyers. As to fleets they keep their vehicles even longer than retail buyers on average. The average for fleets is five years because of deprecation tax laws. Perhaps you are thinking of rental car companies, not fleets, that turn their stock yearly.

mike hunt

-Bob- wrote:

Not correct I am afraid Philip. 'TDi' is a badge used on all 'direct injection' diesel engines whether naturally aspirated, turbocharged [with or without intercooling] and with either mechanical or electronic governing or injector control. 'PD' is the description of their specific 'unit injector' combined pump and injector units.

There are no specific problems with either petrol or diesel VW group turbochargers. A friend has just completed 185,000 miles in less than two years of trouble free motoring in a VW turbo diesel with 20,000 miles or more between oil changes. The auto transmission was beginning to play up and he was quoted £4000UK to replace the transmission so he used this as a reason to change for a new BMW 5series. VW do not make their own turbochargers and buy the units in from specialist manufacturers, including Allied Signal [Garrett]. Latest units are of the variable vane angle type for fast reaction and high torque at very low revs.

Huw

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It

have you got to lose?

why carry the insurance to cover long warranties, they don't break like the Toys

it's more than $2k more car, the interior alone is more than 2 grand.

My Corolla ('03) had not a single complaint requiring a warranty claim until it had 15k miles (6 mos) on it. Even so, that rear wheel bearing failure is a rare occurrence so early. My dealer really took care of that warranty job QUICK. I dropped the car off about

10:30 am, (part was not at the dealership), they ferried me home. Next morning about 9:00, they called, came and got me at home. Job done. Job was done right (I checked), no oil/grease fingerprints anywhere on the car, and the car exterior washed.

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- Philip @ Maximum Torque RPM

MikeHunt: What is a "fleet?" How is a "fleet" different from a car rental agency ... who flip their cars at 10k miles on them?

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- Philip @ Maximum Torque RPM

snipped-for-privacy@mailcity.com wrote:

WELL... long time no see!

At what point did VW's electronic diesel injection gain the ability to measure crankshaft acceleration and the ability to individually adjust injection timing to achieve optimum power production on each cylinder, and ... cease injection on any *individual* cylinder when no crankshaft acceleration is sensed? These enhancements AND the OBD-II diagnostic capability is what TDI implies over here.

GOOD GRIEF!! Is this driver that whacky neighbor of yours?

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- Philip @ Maximum Torque RPM

Tell us, "Mike", what compels a person of your age to go by the puerile monikers of "Mike Hunt" and "Big Johnson"?

Hello. Been here most of the time as usual.

They do not have electronic diesel injection as such but do have electronics controlling most engine parameters as well as the control of injection timing and duration. But this is splitting hairs I suppose.

gain the ability

Well it is a wrong impression. VW have badged all their direct injection diesels as 'TDi' whether having a conventional rotary mechanical pump through to electronically controlled rotary Bosch VP30 pumps to the more complex unit injector 'PD' versions, which are the only ones to have individual cylinder control of injection. These are badged as 'TDi PD' engines. 'PD' stands for 'Pumpe Dusse' or similar, which translated as 'unit injector' A car which epitomises this badge structure is the Golf GT TDi PD, which has all of that on its tail LOL.

No. He is the managing director/sales manager and one of only four UK staff for a large machinery importation business manufacturing in the Irish Republic and covering the whole of the UK and Northern Ireland.

Huw

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car

Well I have a small fleet and change vehicles based on many criteria such as tax, reliability, condition and because sometimes I just fancy a change and sometimes because I am quite content with the vehicle or equipment. My oldest road vehicle is a 1984 Land Rover while my newest is a 14 month BMW X5.

Larger fleets locally are the post office who keep their local delivery vans for an average of 150,000 miles; a national cattle breeding company who keep theirs likewise and have a Vauxhall Astra locally which has done in excess of 220,000 miles; a plumbing company who have an 80,000 mile average but whose owner has somewhat the same philosophy as myself and is very flexible; a large accountancy firm who change on purely financial grounds but which feels obliged to buy from its many dealer clients at regular intervals; and a machinery dealer who runs everything until the chassis rots enough so as to be not repairable. Note - none of these change vehicles at low mileage and, apart from a large Bank, I do not know of anyone left doing this any more.

Rental agencies do indeed run very large fleets which they get at huge discounts. They do tend to change cars at low mileage and supply or own large new car Supermarkets.

This is the UK situation and from what I have read here and specifically written by Mike Hunt, it seems similar in the USA.

Huw

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snipped-for-privacy@mailcity.com

Not to mention "BenDover" LOL.

For the slow witted, they are all innuendo's.

Huw

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I have no knowledge of what the happens in the UK but in the US corporate fleets in general go with 5 year 300K, WOF. Rental car companies do not buy at huge discounts in the US. The fleet discount is between $400 and $600 and it is the same for all fleet buyers. Government fleets however can get a greater discount if they buy in big numbers at a time. If a state buys enough police cars so that a bunch can all be built at the same time, the assembly line saving is passed on to them. I've seen Dodge Police car discount as high as $1,600 because the Dodge police car is discontinued. The current CV discount is $1,000. Fleets and retail car companies do not buy in those volumes. All fleets including government fleets like every other buyer in the US MUST buy their vehicles from a franchised dealer. Manufactures can not sell directly to ANY buyer. Most manufactures offer specify de-contented or equipped vehicles to rental fleets but any fleet buy can buy them. For the most part even an individuals can buy them if they buy five at a time. In reality today many fleets skip the fleet models because of rebates and incentive they can buy regular models with much more equipment for less money.

mike hunt

Huw wrote:

No complaints except a bearing??? What about those rattles and clicks you fixed yourself because you figured your dealer would do a lousy job? Selective memory???

The only distinction on USA models is TDI (not TDi). "PD" has never been on the body here. So when did TDi PD appear "over there?"

1996? Remember, one of the special distinctions of "TDI" is the individualized injection timing based on crankshaft acceleration after a cylinder is supposed to provide a power stroke and the ability to stop fuel all together when X number of complete misfires occurs ... setting a Check Engine light. (An OBD-II emissions requirement "here").

"The first TDI's hit North America in 1996 in a Passat, 1997 was the last year that TDI's could be found in a Passat in North America. The Jetta TDI was introduced in 1997, New Beetle TDI in 1998,and in the Golf in 1999.

"Both injection timing and fuel quantity are controlled using a closed-loop system of sensors which helps the computer to deliver as much as fuel as the air can burn regardless of the driver's right foot position."

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- Philip @ Maximum Torque RPM

Art: Scroll down and you'll find me saying:

"My Corolla ('03) had not a single complaint requiring a warranty claim until it had 15k miles (6 mos) on it." Pretty clear there, Arty! Now ... the dashboard area plastic chatters are not a materials defect that warranty would cover. Yes, I could have made an "Art" (pecker) out of myself by demanding rattle/chatter fixes. But since practically all plastic paneled interiors in these cars behaves similarly and ... because I've been in this business for years, I appreciated the realities of (not) getting the stuff fixed by the dealer to my satisfaction so ... I took on the job myself.

I mention the the warranty wheel bearing in the context of the JD Power surveys which are focused on customer satisfaction in the first

90 days or so of ownership. My wheel bearing would have been off their radar.

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- Philip @ Maximum Torque RPM

Here's a clue-by-4 up side the head for ya Mike, the major fleets are owned by the auto makers. Do you think they sell to themselves at full retail?

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So you admit that Toyota's are rattle and click boxes and Toyota won't fix the problems.