Toyota TSB about 30-weight and 20-weight oils

Here's a copy of an interesting Toyota TSB from March 29, 2006. It lists the engines Toyota says can use 20-weight oil, even though at least some of these engines specify 30-weight oil in their owner's manuals.

Here's a link to the TSB for easier reading:

It DOES NOT say you can use 20 weight oil even though the engines specify 30 weight oil in the manuals.

Giving bad advice can cost people lots of money.

Yes, Ray, I saw that. But you're mistaken when you say the TSB "....DOES NOT say you can use 20 weight oil even though the engines specify 30 weight oil in the manuals."

If you had read more carefully, you would have noticed that the TSB actually contradicts itself.

First it makes the statement that you correctly wrote above, but later in the TSB it states:

"Engines that can use 5W-20 and 0W-20: AZ series...MZ series...NZ series..."

Further, Ray, following that statement, the TSB states that beginning with the 2006 Model Year, 0W-20 can be used in the

Remember, starting with the /2006/ model year.

My owner's manual for the 2AZ-FE engine in my 2006 Camry says to use 5W-*30* (or on occasion 10W-30 if 5W-30 isn't available), but nowhere in the manual does it mention use of

However, the newer TSB clearly states that 20-weight can be used in the 2006 2AZ-FE Camry, and lots of other engines in 2006 and 2007 Toyotas and Scions including engines of the AZ series, MZ series, GR, NZ, etc.

You might want to read more carefully next time, Ray :-)

I didn't want to correct you, but you unnecessrily corrected me when, in fact, you are mistaken. The reality of the TSB is it contradicts itself. It does not say that one cannot use 20-weight oils in those engines, which is what you suggest.

Here is the link to the TSB again, for those who want to judge for themselves, and not rely on my post or Ray's post. Judge for yourself:

This is interesting:

NOTE: DO NOT use these oils in engines other than those listed above. These low?viscosity oils cannot maintain lubrication effectiveness in engines with older designs and could result in smoke emissions from the tailpipe and/or unusual engine noise.

The 2AZ-FE is listed, but is listed for the Camry and the Solara. This engine is also used in the tC, but the tC is not listed. Mine is an '05. It does say, "beginning with model year '06", and yet the tC is not listed.

This is also interesting:

The 2AZ-FE is a 2.4 L (2362 cc) version built in Japan and at TMMK in the USA, obtains a total displacement of 2362 cm³ with 88.5 mm (3.5in) bore and 96.0 mm (3.8-in) stroke, resulting in a compression ratio of 9.6:1. Output is 157 hp (117 kW) at 5600 rpm with 162 ft·lbf (220 N·m) of torque at 4000 rpm. The 2AZ-FE also has one-piece cast camshafts. Output for the 2007 Toyota Camry is 158 hp (118 kW) and 161 lft·lbf of torque. There is also a version of the 2AZ-FE engine with 161 hp (120 kW) and 163 ft·lbf (221 N·m) of torque made in Japan for the Scion tC.

Notice the difference in outputs. There is also a 165hp version for the RAV-4.

Does Scion have its own set of TSBs or are the Toyota ones supposed to cover both? Does the likes of Chevy have its own or does GM put it out for all of them? Tomes

If you look at the PDF linked by the OP, it says "Toyota Scion"

So the TSB covers all vehicles made by Toyota Motor sold under Toyota and Scion brands.

Interestingly, Lexus is missing, but it may just be no NA Lexus' use this engine.

From the viewpoint of someone who used to make a living interpreting TSB's and Toyota technical publications on a daily basis and not merely as a hobby, I stand by my post. When dealers in my district had a question about a service publications, they called me for the answers. If my answer was incorrect, the warranty expenses in my district would rise above the regional average and the customer satisfaction scores would go down, and if either of those happened, my performance reviews would get ugly. Fortunately, that rarely happened.

One of the reasons that Toyota used to restrict TSB distribution is that many people did not know how to interpret the information correctly. TSB's are more widely available now, but the problem of correct interpretation hasn't been solved. TSB's are written for distribution to dealers and internal technical personnel and so the basic step-by-step information and explanations that might be included in a consumer publication like the owner's manual are omitted.

In a Toyota TSB, something that is called out in a note with distinctive markings like the red box surrounding the note means that the information is very important, and in the case of ambiguity, the information in the note takes precedent over the other information in the TSB.

Toyota often makes production changes partway through a model year, which is why they often include production date or VIN ranges in TSB's. Production date and VIN ranges tend to make TSB's overly long and complex and subject to even more mis-interpretation, so in this case, they included a note that basically says "in case of doubt, follow the information in the owner's manual and oil filler cap." The information in this TSB tells me that if a vehicle had the production change using the 5W-20 or 0W-20 oil, it would be noted in the owner's manual and oil filler cap. IOW, besides different oil, the production change also includes a different oil filler cap and owner's manual.

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Well, that's a good explanation, Ray, but for one thing. You're assuming Toyota made oil-specific changes to their engines sometime in the middle of the 2006 Model-Year production period, but we don't /know/ that they did.

They may have made no physical changes to all those engines at all, from the AZ series engine to the MZ to the NZ to the UZ, etc.

We just don't know one way or the other, because Toyota doesn't explain in the TSB. What the company has done is leave folks guessing.

I suspect that the information you posted here is incomplete. There is probably a PANT bulletin or another TSB that denotes part number changes for the owner's manuals and oil filler caps, along with production dates and VIN ranges.

Whether Toyota made oil-specific changes to the engines is irrelevant. I doubt if they made any physical changes to the engine, however the information TSB is very clear to me and should be to dealer service department personnel - follow the owner's manual and markings on the oil filler cap. If the owner's manual and oil filler cap specify 5W-20, then use it. If they specify 5W-30, then use it.

The trick to reading and *understanding* a TSB is to just read it and not try to figure out if there is some secret message written between the lines. Don't take something simple and make it more difficult than it is. This is a very simple TSB that was issued to dealers as an FYI so they know to check which oil is specified for a particular vehicle.

It seems to me this is the most important part of the TSB, no matter what car/engine you have:

ILSAC GF?4 can be used in all Toyota and Scion engines.

Oh, and perhaps this:

NOTE: The recommended viscosity grade for this oil differs according to vehicle model. Use the recommended grade specified on the oil filler cap or in the Repair Manual or Owner?s Manual for each vehicle. For Prius vehicles, refer to TSB No. EG050?04, ?Engine Oil Specifications.?

The term "model" has very specific meaning in the car business. A Camry CE with a manual transmission is a different model from a Camry CE with an automatic transmission or a 4 and 6 cylinder Camry LE or XLE.

Thanks.