I'm contemplating buying another RAV4 (I've had 3 in a row, and I love
them!), but after looking around online it appears they're no longer
made with manual transmissions. Can anyone confirm this? Since I
HATE...loathe...despise...automatics, if that's all there is, I'll have
to buy something other than a RAV4. In fact, after looking a bit at
other Toyota SUVs, it looks like NONE of them comes with the option of
manual transmissions, which means I'll have to break my almost quarter
century loyalty to Toyota and buy another brand. :(
LOL. I have digital tv, hdtv, digital cable, hddvd, and a manual trans, with
warn hubs, digital watch, and a broom to sweep the floor. I wonder where
that leaves me!
Not all that is new is good. Not all that is old is good either.
Well I guess one could always buy a "porthole Pinto" (Let's see who
remembers that one). It would make a nice addition to any collection.
I love those who claim that manual trannys give better control on marginal
surfaces. I know the Moon is made of green cheese, too!
(annoying top-posting corrected to make sense)
> Oh well...some people still like black & white TV and eight tracks too
Really? Well, I'm not one of them. I was the first person in my
neighborhood to have a DSS dish when they first came out, the first to
have a dedicated modem line in my house (in 1985), the first to have
high-speed Internet, the first to have a monitored alarm system, etc. So
I really don't see your point. I'm not sure what B&W TVs and 8-track
tapes have to do with preferring control--and a feeling of actually
DRIVING--in my vehicles. Perhaps you're one of those unfortunates who
don't know how to drive a stick shift and, therefore, don't understand
what you're missing. Whatever! Whether I'm driving in town or up in
the mountains, I prefer a 4WD with a stick shift. But whatever floats
your boat, I suppose.
SlowER traffic keep right
When I was shopping for a PreRunner, I was shocked to find that they all
came equipped with a manual transmission. The standard Tacoma could be had
with a manual transmission -- either engine -- but the PreRunner could only
be bought with an automatic.
If you would consider a truck, the Tacoma V6 4WD can be bought with a manual
I am not sure, but I _think_ the issue is smog rules and CAFE requirements.
I would suggest that the automaker can control the driving
environment/actions of the operator with an automatic more than they can
with a manual. The automatic will try to shift either up or down when a
particular set of conditioins exist, and when the vehicle is placed in D and
left there, then the transmissiion makes many of the choices that a driver
will make if he has a manual trans. Granted, the driver can override the
settings that cause the automatic to shift gears, but if there are 1000
automatics running around, and 10 are being driven in an override mode, then
990 are delivering consumption figures that make the CAFE standards happy
Having said that, I can not explain why PreRunners get automatics and
standard Tacomas can have a manual. As a consumer, I'd expect a manual trans
in a PreRunner as the default, and an automatic in the plain Tacoma.
A little off topic, but back in the 70's, here in California, you
couldn't buy a Chevy Nova (Chevy II) with a 6-cylinder and three-speed
(the mileage king of the Chevy lineup), to meet California smog
requirements, you had to have the 305 V8 and automatic transmission. I
seem to remember the 6-banger with 3-on-the-tree did about 10 MPG better
than the V8/Auto. So burning more gas probably resulted in about the
same amount of pollution, but cost more.
Far out and right on!!! :>))
I started out with a Toyota truck--a 4-speed stick that I bought new in
1985 and drove for 14 blissfully trouble-free years. But I finally
parted with it and bought the first of my three RAV4s when my latest
pets--two Great Dane puppies--QUICKLY outgrew the front seat. Although
I only have one of them left (unfortunately, Danes die young), a truck
simply won't do, as I would NEVER let a dog ride in the bed of a truck,
and the seats just don't work well for us. He needs the room the back
of the RAV4 (or similar!) gives when the back seats are folded up. I
like the RAV4 because although it is an SUV, its size is small enough
that it's still very fuel-efficient, yet it gives me the interior room I
Oh, really?! Interesting, considering that--as a woman--I have no
testosterone to speak of.
With that little detail out of the way, I'll reiterate that I prefer the
feeling of control I get when driving a stick versus an automatic. By
the way, I learned on an automatic and drove them almost exclusively for
the first 10 years or so, before deciding to drive sticks exclusively.
On the rare occasions since then when I've had to drive an
automatic...I've really hated it. The difference in control has nothing
to do with testosterone-fueled misinterpretations, it has to do with the
engine, the clutch, the driver, the road conditions, etc. If you've
driven vehicles with manual transmissions and DIDN'T see the improvement
in control, perhaps that's a reflection of your own lack of
understanding of, and ability to use, the transmission and clutch to
As for endless shifting, what can I say? In general, there's little
need for endless shifting. Today, driving up and down in the Hollywood
Hills, I did of course have to up- and downshift a good deal, but on the
freeway heading back to the San Gabriel Valley I was basically cruising
along in 5th gear. Not a big deal, especially compared to the alternative.
SlowER traffic keep right
Please define that overused word "control" Can you not "control" shifting
in an automatic? People who learned to drive on stick shifts need to move
into the 21st century because in another few years they will be seen only in
Of course you can.
For me, the control comes from the speed of engagement, and speed of
torque appliaction, when a driver can control the clutch, not simply if
I can shift myself. I can also control exactly when it shifts in either
Maybe I haven't driven the right automatic, but all of the examples I've
driven tend to thump from gear to gear when manually shifted.
In loose or snowy conditions, I can manually slip a clutch allowing
torque to be introduced very gradually, so the tire never breaks loose.
This sometimes includes starting in a higher gear, and slipping the
clutch to just slightly move the vehicle. My 4x4 Tacoma can actually be
moved with the starter, using a factory installed clutch bypass.
In slippery and performance conditions, and certain towing situations, I
can downshift much more smoothly than any automatic I've ever driven.
In these cases, smooth is king.
While not high on the customer request list for a manufacturer, a manual
transmission can also be push or roll started with a dead battery.
This can be handy if camping and using the battery, or for those of us
who sometimes leave cars parked for extended periods of time without
access to a battery maintainer.
The last, highly personal, reason is that I find myself slumping,
leaning on the center console, eating, talking on the phone, etc... when
I'm not shifting. When I'm driving a stick, I'm much more involved,
properly positioned, etc... But that's just me. <G>
If you want to drive an automatic, that's great. Some of us would like
the choice of a manual transmission, which is ~ also $600-800 cheaper
than the automatic, when both are available.
All that said, I prefer the automatic for heavy traffic commuting, but
I've positioned myself away from that situation as a lifestyle choice.
<G> Even though I prefer stick shifts, I still like ABS, airbags, MP3
player interfaces, GPS units...
Sounds like someone who has never driven in snow, and has never learned how
to operate a manual shift.
Without a proper understanding of how a manual shift works you will never
understand the advantages.
That was precisely my point in one of my replies. Wrath SAYS that he
(she?) has indeed driven vehicles with manual transmissions, but it
seems clear from his comments that he doesn't understand how to make
them work for him.
Barry has already done a great job of answering that, so I won't repeat
what he said.
I guess you missed the part where I said that I learned to drive on an
automatic, and drove automatics almost exclusively for the first 10
years or so. I didn't learn on a stick--that was a CHOICE I made later
on. And I'll say, again, that if you actually knew how to use a manual
transmission to your advantage, you wouldn't be here bashing them.
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