Mechanic says my bus makes no sense: help

Hi all,

I just got a call from the shop (Charlies Foreign Car in Encinitas California) where I took our new 71 bus in for a tune-up last night. I had presented a list of performance problems -- poor starting, hesitation, bogging, rough running, stalling, etc. Figured it was just in need of a 3,000-mile tune-up.

They called to say that this bus has been too modified to run well. As has been pointed out in another thread, the non-stock carb (a Weber 40 IDF dual-throat) will not work with the vacuum advance, and the centrifugal advance only advances it to 18 degrees, where 25 is desired. This, he said, is one of the reasons for my issues with its performance.

And, it's a racing carb -- it doesn't even have any chokes -- which helps to explain why it starts poorly when cold.

They are totally puzzled why the previous owner had this stuff installed when they got the new 1776cc engine -- it's a family car, not a dune buggy. They speculated that the way it is performing is the reason they donated the vehicle to charity.

Even though this model year does not have to pass smog inspection, they say that it is so heavily modified that it is technically illegal in the state of California and Charlies, being a smog station, is not comfortable having the vehicle there. If an inspector came around, they'd be in hot water if he found them working on it, so they have declined to do any further servicing. He wants me to pick it up, no charge.

He recommends taking it back to the shop that installed the stuff -- VW Paradise in San Marcos -- and ask them what's up. I wonder if it just might not be easier and more practical to get rid of it. I mean -- who cares what their story might be on this?

There are some very experienced folks on this newsgroup. I'd like to hear any feedback y'all might offer on this. All we're looking for is a family bus, not for everyday driving.

Mike "Darn" Elliott

....................I'd do that.

............Also, even if VW Paradise built the engine I wouldn't automatically assume that they're the ones who installed it in your bus no matter what the PO says.

...I also concur. VW paradise is a very reoputable shop, and have the current fastest VW powered dragster in the world. As far as it goes, it sounds like the shop you are at now (or were) does only stock vehicles...not necessarilly a bad thing. However, many people get tired of being a road hazard in a vintage bus....hence the trend towards performance modifications. Most (not all) people who "hatrod" a bus aren't looking for a drag racing van, but simply something that can merge onto highways without fear of being rear ended and climb hills without being passed by loaded logging trucks ;-) To that end, a 1776 isn't a bad choice, with a mild cam such as a web 119. If it has vacuum advance along with its dual carbs...that tells me that the overall intent was low end performance, and not high end hp. Just what you need in a bus. True there are no chokes on a set of weber

40's....but truth be told when in proper tune thbey aren't all that necessary. The straight short manifolds warm very quickly from head heat, and drivability shouldn't suffer to badly for very long. Take your list, and your concerns to the Lauffers (the owners of VW paradise), have them tune your bus, and explain what was done and why. I'm sure it will work out for you, and do doubt that it is anything to serious. But hey, I'm sure if it is a "rrace engine" many here....offer me first =-)))....will trade ya even for a nice stock 1600 engine with single carb for that undrivable paradise built 1776 =-))) ...cause thats the kind of nice friendly helpful folk we are.

..Gareth

LOL! What a bunch of nice guys!

I think I will drive out to San Marcos and have them do their magic. The only reason I even hesitated to pick VW Paradise over San Marcos is that there is nothing to do, ever, in San Marcos while Escondido can be very enjoyable. I've sat in enough car service shop customer waiting rooms looking at the calendars with pictures of girls holding wrenches, and flipped through enough car magazines, to last a lifetime.

Mike "Just want to drive my hippie bus" Elliott

Wait -- I meant to say that *Encinitas* can be very enjoyable.

Mike "We have another name for Escondido that adds an "L" but this is a family show." Elliott

...having seen the above correction by Timmy (hey sometimes he gets something right after all =-) I see that you have a single weber 40

2 barrel. Indeed, though a decent enough carb for a 1776, this would not be my ideal set up for a bus. It may be that he carb choice was a result of the last owner trying to save a little money over the cost of duals. The reason being, is the same reason I said the duals would work werll enough without a choke....manifold length. In this case it is quite long...unlike the duals. This will result in more of a hesitation....slower warmups, etc. If tuned properly, and the manifold is a high quality unit with decent pre-heating ability (tube connected to exhaust to warm manifold) they can be quite driveable. However, this is another item to discus with VW Paradise.In a bus I tend to lean towarsd a set of real dual carbs...though small single barrle ones....as not as much flow is necessary. Such as weber ICT's, or Kadrons. Still a dual set of 40's isn't necessarilly over kill....and you allready have 1... =-) Also CB performance has a new set of solex duals with chokes for sale...might be just the ticket...but I have no experience with them directly....but maybe the paradise boys do. =-) At any rate, you may find changing carberation *is* something you *may* want to do....just explain your wants/needs for the bus to them....they should know the specifics of the engine build and be able to guide you to what changes (if any) are necessary to meet your specific application.

..Gareth

they told you real things. install at least a stock carb and let it be tuneable... Peppe

.....................I can feel your pain Gary.

.............lol

"Mike Elliott" wrote

Maybe they'll let you sit in one of their drag cars and go "vroom! vroom!" while you wait. :o)

-- Scott

[snip]

I can't help but wonder if this might be a swan dive into the money pit.

Might there not be some kind of pipe to the carburetor to preheat the intake air, like that used on early carbed Porsches with success? Is it possible that by itself, preheating might be enough to get by?

Mike Elliott

A centermounted Weber IDF40 can be made to work just fine with that engine, but it takes time to get the jetting just right.

As for the advance, if you disable the vacuum (you should), you can still tweak the centrifugal mechanism to match teh rest of the engine. Even without tweaking, you can try this: Plug all vacuum lines, leave a short (1 inch) piece of hose hanging from both the carb AND the distributor, and plug them. Then set the maximum advance to 30 degreed BTDC at 3000 rpm.

After that, the IDLE advance may be quite a bit more than stock, over 10 degrees. You get crispier throttle response but when your maximum advance still remains around or below 30 degrees, you should be safe. I have driven with a modified 009 that only gave 15 degrees of advance. Idle advance was already 15 degrees, add to that another 15 and I got 30 degrees max advance.

As long as it still starts, you will be okay.

This should get the car VERY driveable, although the details depend on the rest of the engine. You need to make sure there's no pinging. OH, and use only high octane gasoline. The engine sounds like it would need it, and this advance setting I just recommended will utilize it too.

Jan

define money pit? is $5-600 a money pit? ....once?....to make your vehicle perform optimally? How much are car payments these days? ...ok...lets do it this way.....you were prepared to pay for a thourough tune-up.....right? Well get that tuneup from the shop that built the engine (VW Paradise)....at that point the engine shoudl run good (its freshly tuned by trained professionals....right??) Make sure it does....its their motor...they built it...they can make it run right ;-) NOW....take under advisement the IMPROVEMNTS (if any) they suggest to you to optimize the configuration....and budget/slate them for you convienance..

,,,Gareth

Hi Return the carb to a stocker, bigger main jet maybe,so you get a choke working for you and probably a strong engine with the added distplacement.Another case off trying to make a racecar out of a bus.Good luck.Steve

Well, it's more than I had in mind, that's all. But a fellow can't help but wonder how many more wierdnesses there are in the car that will cost moolah.

I don't know. My means are humble nowadays and I've not bought a car with financing since the early 90's. Spending $1900 for this car was a stretch. Moving that up to $2,500 or so is more of one.

But sometimes a man's got to do what a man's got to do. Especially when it comes to cool old bus.

Mike Rocket J Squirrel Elliott

. . . the

Thanks, Jan!

Mike Rocket J Squirrel Elliott

..................Congratulations Rocket J. You've passed the test and you're now officially just as sick as the rest of us here at RAMVA. Welcome to the asylum.

LOL!

Uh, thanks. I guess.

Mike Rocket J Squirrel Elliott

"Tim Rogers" wrote

Now we just need to get up a pool on how long it'll take for Mike to buy

*another* VW. :o)

-- Scott