I have just returned from a trip out West (SD, Wyoming, Coloroado). Visited a lot of great places, put on lots of miles - unfortunately not in the Bug. My 'ford' performed so well I thought the engine just had to be Japanese. :) But I guess it's American. (Are we copying the Japanese yet?)
OBACVW - Saw _none_ on the whole trip.
"Tim Rogers" wrote in news:%mw2b.8136$ snipped-for-privacy@twister.nyroc.rr.com:
Echo? Hyundai? Buy the wife any brandy new People's Car she wants and count yourself lucky. My wife's been making new car noises and lately has been drooling over a BMW Z3.
Although $7500 would buy a pretty nice AC Beetle...
On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 09:50:44 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@stafford.net (J Stafford) ran around screaming and yelling:
hope the trip was great...welcome back. J
On 27 Aug 2003 18:41:35 GMT, cloud8 ran around screaming and yelling:
if you are gonna go that route, go for the Z4 J
Bill,
Let me just toss in what you wrote "value" & "reliability" In its day, VW was not necessarily the cheapest car on the market (back in the day a VW cost more than a Vega or a Pinto). However, it did represent excellent value & was certainly reliable. Look at how long you are going to own the car. Look at the maintenance costs and resale value (all can be done on-line). Nothing beats an Accord, Civic, Camry, or Corolla (which is so much bigger than an Echo for NOT much more money). When comparing Toyota/Honda to the rest, the rest simply don't stack up - higher operating costs, lower resale value that offsets any price differential (which isn't as much as you might think). Getting a second level model rather than top of the line of any of the above cars, won't set you back as much as you think (decent equipped Accords & Camry's can be had for under $20k as a left over - Civic/Corolla for almost 5K less). And you could even get a sweet deal on a demo (usually with less than 8k miles). Want to be really cutting edge, go for a Hybrid Civic or the Prius (new model, while $20k is supposedly very nice and worth every penny with the older model still very nice). Just my 2 cents. - DB
well it's a done deal....didn't get the "mazdaspeed" edition, but we brought home a new "laser blue" protege' tonight...nice little car...pretty peppy, and i love the small "sport" steering wheel...the wifey had to have an automatic tranny, but at least it is the "sport auto" that has the "manual" shift mode....
------------------- Chris Perdue
*All opinions are those of the author of this post* "Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug"You folks spend too much money on cars!:~)
Ok. You may remember that a while back my wife's car got run into. Well, it was a medium metallic green 1993 Honda Accord Wagon. These are not easy cars to find. The other driver's insurance paid up nicely. We had a total of just under $5,000 in the car (purchase price plus work done) and they paid a fair amount over $5,000 to replace it.
I've managed to replace this car with one who's body is in better condition than the previous car (before the accident!:~) and with comparable interior and mileage. I've had the car worked on and done more work on it myself. It now has new tires on it and all this for right around what the insurance company paid.
I just can't see paying new car prices. I certainly can't see paying that steep depreciation that happens instantly. Furthermore it makes no sense to pay interest (if you float a loan on the car) on a depreciating asset!
Let some one else pay the majority of the depreciation. Let someone else pay the interest. Buy a good, solid, more or less top of the line used car. Keep it in good shape. Use it well and long. Sell it after a suitable interval since cars these days are built to more or less self-destruct.
The depreciation and interest on new cars and new car loans are the single biggest holes in most people's budgets. If you can stop up these holes then you are well on the way to solving any money problems you may have.
As to the original question, avoid Hyundai like the plague. There is a reason they are so cheap. Try to buy parts for your car. You will have to take out a loan just to repair the silly thing (this is, I believe, because they use high parts prices to help persuade people that it is cheaper to buy another one of their cars than to repair the old one!:~) A well kept, used Honda or Toyota is far superior to a Hyundai. Just my opinion.
-- John Willis
On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 18:03:46 -0500, John Willis ran around screaming and yelling:
very good point john....i searched high and low in my area for a "new" to us Mazda protege'(the wife was convinced she had to have one, and i like it too...they are rated top in their class in almost all comparisons done) the used one's i found(*very few of them, was looking for approx. two years old) were selling for what i paid for a new one(eight miles on the clock *after* the test drive) with the end of model year rebates that mazda was offering....i haggled with the dealer, and walked out the door over the last $250 that they would give up to meet my price...well i got it and i am pretty pleased with it...but now it is time to "thin the herd" around here....there may be two trucks, a car, and a bug for sale soon... J
On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 21:03:01 -0400, Joey Tribiani scribbled this interesting note:
As long as you are happy with a fully understood purchase, then that is all anyone can ask.
As for thinning the herd, I feel your pain...being in need of a little herd thinning around here as well!:~) (Having two Toyotas, one Honda, one 1/2 ton work truck, and four ACVWs in or near my driveway! What? I should have them in the garage? No Way! What most people call a garage I call an overstuffed shop!:~)
-- John Willis
On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 21:06:45 -0500, John Willis ran around screaming and yelling:
i love the 67-72 chevies....give ya a worn out 009 distributor for it if you deliver it to virginia...hehe J
Whew, and I thought having five vehicles was bad. Well, JW, you are lucky to live in Texas where you don't need a garage to keep the prizes from the elements. :) Had any rain lately? Snow? :)
It seems like in a price competitive world today there are alot of things besides the Hynndai that are priced resonably initially to get the sale, but they get you later. Printers are one example. They are pretty darn inexpensive to buy, but you get your sticker shock when you go to buy your first ink cartridge. I bought a Holmes brand Air purifier at Wal-Mart for $29.95. The thing works great and really keeps the dust down almost nothing. I went to their website to see what a filter costs, and it is $21.95. They are making their money on the filter, because that thing has to cost next to nothing to produce.
Bill Berckman
67 Beetle Pictures at
Just a personal observation; driving around and checking out all the local dealerships I've noticed they all seem to have something in common. Repair Bays, Automotive Technicians, Service Writers, Parts Departments and a waiting list to get your car fixed. If you can find a brand of car that doesn't offer these services that's the one to buy.
On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 21:45:27 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@stafford.net (J Stafford) scribbled this interesting note:
We're supposed to have a bit of rain this weekend. It won't be too much, I'm sure, and the tomatoes and jalapenos could really use some natural rain water!:~)
-- John Willis
A few years ago my wife got tired of driving the old 300TD or the Thing and bought a Sonata. I got a Sante Fe a year later. Hyundai is a good value, but the scheduled services still cost. What you spend after the sale is going to depend on how good of a dealership you choose and the deal you cut at the time of the sale. Get the waranty description of any new car you buy before you sign (they always seem to be fresh out of copies...you tell them to call you when they get one, or the maybe the dealer across town has one and they'll find one). None of the bumper to bumper waranties of any company include everything. (Tune ups, brake pads, bulbs, wipers blades etc.) Hyundai does take care of the head lamps and quite a few items that others don't. I like them for the money.
John
On 29 Aug 2003 18:27:14 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@email.com (dragoneyre) scribbled this interesting note:
Warranty light bulbs? Why? In the previous 1993 Accord Wagon we had and in the current 1993 Accord Wagon we've replaced the old one with, the taillight bulbs, original Honda equipment, have only just started to go out! I want more like those. Light bulbs that last ten years on a car. Can't buy those at Pep Boys!:~(
-- John Willis
Yet you can get a 4 cylinder Camry LE, with an excellent 4 cylinder engine BTW, for under $16,000 street price, without even haggling. Not stripped down, auto, air, etc. Not "1 at this price." And made in the U.S. for most of them. Yes, this is a model year end deal, but it's still pretty incredible. We paid almost $17K in 1996 for a Camry LE (though the MSRP was higher back then).
MSRP has no meaning anymore. Invoice is the defacto retail price from which you bargain down from, if you have to bargain at all.
A Corolla CE is now about $12K. Much higher than the accent, but a far better value for the long term.
I wish that VW would do a low cost model of the Jetta, kind of like when they did the Golf "City" a while back. There costs are certainly low enough to do this.
On 01 Sep 2003 23:58:18 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@aol.comSPAMOUT (Bill Berckman) ran around screaming and yelling:
hello Bill...the Mazda 6 is a great car...and as far as looks go, the
6 is a protege that grew up...LOL...we also looked at those, but they are more than we need now...our local lot(Berglund mazda, salem va) had several with the 5-speed, and they had the S model with about 5-8k miles on them that were "loaner" cars for people having warantee repairs done for about the same you paid, or a bit less......you may want to check your warantee Bill, i believe all 2003's actually have four year/50k mile bumper to bumper...anywho congrats, and enjoy...the mazdas are nice...(your car is actually a whole hell of alot less Japanese than mine...mine rings in at 97% and it was assembled in Hiroshima....i believe the 6's are mostly derived from parts from mexico and canada...but damn fine automobiles, and a great reliability record...) JMotorsForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.