Dear Mr. Ford (a modest proposal)

That assumes you can sell your domestic car. Around here, it is almost impossible.

I get 21+mpg's with my 01 Mustang GT convertible. And it's fast, fun and a good looking white on white on white. In fact it gets as good mileage if not better then my 06 Mazda 3s with and automatic (slush box) but it's a nice looking care well built in Japan but don't buy a dark blue car hard to keep clean.

Before you can make a choice you will first need to be in a position where you can write a check to buy a new car. LOL

mike hunt

Man I figured I was gonna have to jump all over you...

Nice, honest post.

True, the difference in average defects per car is small numerically, but percentage wise the imports such as Ford and GM are far behind the American cars like Honda and Toyota. Honda averages less than 1 defect per car, while Ford and GM average about 1.3 per car. That is about 30% more defects.

************************* Dave

Actually, since I switched to Toyotas, my maintenance expenses are down (routine service only, no corrective maintenance so far) and my existing vehicles are worth much more as trades, so I'm in a much better position than ever to write a check for a new (or recent) car.

But since they run so well, I don't have to. :-)

"Mike Hunter" wrote in news:y9WdnW snipped-for-privacy@ptd.net:

I just researched that, and it was quite suprising. Lincoln, Caddy, Saturn and then Lexus. Toyota was WELL below average, while honda and chevy are in a basic tie. Ford was just slightly below the average ranking.

of course, to be fair, the issue we were discussing was to compare the chevy, fords, and dodges dealers of the world with the Lexus and infiniti dealers of the world. simply put, a well run luxury dealership should easily be able to provide better service to each customer.

Second, let's remember that the nationwide ranking of a brand of dealer has nothing to do with how good the dealership in your area is. Ford is listed slightly below average, but we have a ford dealership nearby which is simply the best dealer of any brand I've ever been to. Dale Jarrett Ford in indian trail... it's just that good.

There's a nearby chevy dealer that is probably the worst dealership i've ever tried to deal with. rude, with no training for their salespeople.

In short, don't go by the rankings by jd power or similar... visit your local dealer and make your own decision.

JP

Exactly. I went to two different Nissan dealers, and they were polar opposites. One would have done almost anything to get me to buy a car, while the other insulted me because I wasn't interested in a Sentra.

Guess which I bought a car from?

Dave

You write personal checks when buying a car? Interesting. I always had to give them banker checks.

Still, the point was that it is silly to get a mediocre car with lots of luxury options. A FWD Lincoln without power will suck no matter how much leather and wood trim you put on it.

That's funny, I've always written a personal check for my new cars, even my new tractor. NEVER any question about my check being good or not.

You are correct any 'list' by itself is subjective, it is the ONE that effects you that is important. The fact is everything on the 'list' could be bad, or good, the list would simply show which were worse, or better the case may be, hardly an indictor of what might effect you.

Many will point to a their brand of vehicle as a 'better' than another, when in fact ALL manufactures today are building vehicles that are of good quality and reliable, but one will be 'listed' on the top and another must be one the bottom. Whether the one you buy is one of the 2% that are bad, or one the 98% that are good, in the chance you take when you drive it home Why some are willing to pay a 20% to 30% premium to buy a particular brand when the odds are they will get one of any manufactures 98%, is silly. ;)

mike hunt

Tractor? Where you live everybody knows everybody, right?

"Jim Higgins" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@corp.supernews.com...

Either you are not very old, or you have a very short memory. Having owned import cars or dealt with family members that owned them in the 70's, 80's and even 90's, I can promise you that there were (and still are), wretched import car dealers and crappy import cars. My list of problematic import cars include a 1975 Datsun 280Z (clutch, EFI), 1980 Honda Accord (rust),

1983 Toyota Cressida (a wretched piece of junk with so many problem I can't list them all), 1983 Mazda (AC, cooling system, trim), 1986 VW Jetta (fuel pumps, transmission, CV joint boots, electricals), 1990 VW Passat (motor mounts, interior and exterior trim, cam drive, electricals). When we owned the Cressida, the local Toyota dealer was run like an extortion racket. Over price the new cars, sell you unreliable crap, and then hold you hostage for parts that cost two and three time the US equivalents. Things are a little better in my area now, since there actually multiple Toyota and Honda dealers, but they still treat you like they are doing you a favor by agreeing to consider selling you one of their cars. And the service departments are still run by extortionist. Maybe things are better over at the Lexus and Acura dealerships, but how would I know? I don't trust the opinion of anybody dumb enough to pay 25% more for a Toyota or Honda because they have cool brand name. At least two people I know recently ditched their unreliable Japanese cars and bought American. I have seen it go from people not buying foreign cars because there Grandfather said they were crap, to people not buying American cars for the same reason. During my lifetime, my Father has only purchased one new car that was not a Ford. Of the 21 Fords he bought over 50 years, only one was problematic (1957 Station Wagon - blew the engine in 1964 at 85,000+ miles, he had the engine rebuilt and trade the car). One other one was irritating (1979 Station Wagon - exhaust leak the dealer couldn't fix, but there was no cost since car was totaled in an accident before it was fixed). Of the other 19, I doubt he ever spent more than $300 in repairs on any of them. I spent more on the Toyota every year I owned it. So when people tell me how great Toyotas are, I just have to wonder what they are comparing them to. Everything is much better now than in 1972. I might very well buy a Toyota in the next few year, but it will be because the particular product I buy offers the features I want at an acceptable price - not because some Usenet expert claims US cars are junk and Toyotas are great. I've been to the Toyota dealership and seen the service bays filled with broken cars. I've seen my neighbors Camry lay down a cloud of blue smoke every morning. I've seen a local farmer's broken and rusted out hulk of a Tundra.

Ed

I was waiting for someone to bring up those dealers.... my parents had such an experience with a honda dealer back in '81 or so as I recall. They ended up leaving not buying anything at all. The Japanese import dealers took the demand for the cars as a chance to treat people poorly.

I've also seen a Ford dealer tell a woman to "be quiet and let the men talk." We walked out damn fast, since she was buying the car for herself. I was just the Go-With-Guy, and neither of us minded going to another Ford dealer with a better reputation.

Oh, and that happened in the 2000s, not the 1950s.

Dave

And Ford and GM dealers just treat everyone like crap. So does Toyota. Honda dealers can be very crappy too, especially for service.

So what do you do?

You go to a few, get your best price, then go to the one you chose to buy from and tell him what you are willing to pay. Give him 5 minutes, then turn and walk out if he isn't in the mood to sell a car.

Everytime I buy a new car I do this, and the treatment I get is irrelevant because I know I won't buy from anyone until I am ready, and then I treat them just like they do everyone else. In the end, everyone is happy. I get the vehicle for what I WANT TO PAY, and they get to experience poor treatment. Oh wait, I forgot, they usually want to be the one treating the customer bad.

************************* Dave

Well, there likely WAS a question, but they got it answered before you left the place.

No car or dealer is without fault. The problem is that Detroit has acquired a bad reputation with a lot of people and those folks are buying elsewhere. Detroit's ongoing slide in market share keeps going down and Toyota, Honda, etc. climbs because they are building cars people want to buy. Having good products is what makes for sales and the better the product the better the market share. Detroit is still failing and falling. How long can Detroit continue their losing streak on market share before they implode?

"Mike Hunter" wrote in news:rrKcnSmFS6U8in snipped-for-privacy@ptd.net:

You're absolutely correct on a good part of this. It's human nature, I believe based on our competitive drive, and that's based on our fight- or-flight response... but it' our nature to like lists to see and compare where our choices fall. In many ways choosing 1 brand over another for individual reasons, like reliability, may be statistically irrevelant, but JD Power is never going to come out and say that "Well, actually ALL cars are good now and you can pick what you want and feel confidient!"..No, they have to cut and parce and piece together to come up with a list.

Regardless, whether all manufacturers are building good quality and reliable products, it is still not just a 'toss up'. What I mean is that I think we will see much more where styling, interior design and the quality of the 'environment' of the car will become increasing important. Ford might make a great product, but if you hate the design or quality of materials they use in the dash, seats, etc.... you might be happier elsewhere.

"C. E. White" wrote in news:43e2812b$1@kcnews01:

Of course, those of us who do buy reliable japanese autos tend to think that there is no premium we'd be paying. The japanese cars tend (not all, but tend) to be very well value priced. Honestly, for several years I wondered why people would try to save that little bit of payment a month to buy a car from an American manufacturer with a less efficient engine, less efficient tranny, and an interior and ride quality that is much, much cheaper than the Honda or Toy. counterpart.

Put another way, the hondas and toyotas are the 'premium' you bring up. the jap. cars are the middle- line, value pricing of the auto world. The cheaper american cars tended to be... just cheaper. But you get what you pay for.

I have seen it go from people not buying foreign cars

similar to what you're doing here??