Missing the good old days......OT (sigh)

I agree, mostly, Richard, and have avoided the political talk so as not to chase true Stude enthusiasts away. Lord knows there are plenty of places on the web to vent. Sometimes politics enter the car world, with gas/oil prices and legislation that affects our hobby and it's tough not to slip into partisan rhetoric. Just being human, I guess. When I find a funny or interesting website that's not specific to Stude's, I'll use the 'OT' and hope it's not a waste of people's time. (I figure if it makes this gear-head laugh, others might like it, too.) I also know if I get stymied with a mechanical issue, I'll get help here. Don't give up on the 'ol NG, Richard. At our heart it's the Studebakers that bring us together and (to paraphrase Larry Swanson) it's the people that keep us together.

Well put, Richard. I, too, remember those days when we talked cars, kids, grandkids and general get-to-know you type stuff. Those, indeed, were the great days of this NG.

"Way back when" when we used to only have 40-50 posts per day (and they were relavant to the hobby) were much more enjoyable times on the NG. As it is now, I only read about 10% of what is posted due to the constant bickering and sniping of each other on the OT, political, or otherwise antagonistic threads. I really used to look forward to checking the NG but, now, it is more of a chore to weed out the crap in order to attempt to glean a few bits of Studebaker content.

We have lost many good members due to personality conflicts and that is a damned shame. There are volumes of good information out there we have alienated because we cannot check political or religious beliefs at the door. I honestly believe that 99% of the pissing matches we have in here would never happen face to face but, of course, here there is apparently no accountability for your actions.

Richard,

As one who comes and goes in here I have to say that I appreciate this site tremendously. I'm sure you have a greater history in here than I do, but I have to say all you guys have been a tremendous help to me both when I ask questions and when I simply follow other threads. "Ask not what the NG can do for you.............." *g*

Anyway, hope you hang around. We're all getting one day older today.

Best, JoeH.

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Richard, and others - If you want to have all Studebaker subjects, sample the forums (general and technical) on the Studebaker Drivers Club web site. I used to be on this NG a lot, then, because of a small minority, I left the NG completely. Lately, I have looked at about 10% of the posts on the NG and respond to a very few of those. StudeBob, Nate and I are the biggest contributers on the SDC forums.

TomNoller wrote: . Sometimes politics enter the car world, with gas/oil

It seems that how all the threads that do with politics start. Stude owner 'A' vents, and says he has to move 5 of his parts cars because his municipality institutes the 'Clunker Law'. Now owner 'B' adds to the tread and asks what makes a clunker a 'clunker'. Then someone else will enter a thread and go on about how the mayor, his congressman, or whoever is known to despise the old car hobby because he's a ________. Then someone else comes on as says his cars are 'okay' on his property because his congressman is a ________. And then it snowballs from there. Of course, we often repeat about the press which as we all know is not exactly free of political elements, either. It is a very easy mire to sink oneself into once the thread gets rolling...

Craig

(preface:... I am a supporter of the SDC forum. I do believe that the SDC forum SHOULD be moderated.. I also believe that this alt.autos.studebaker forum should NOT be moderated... Those that choose to spew here should be willing to stand up and take the return spew... Their choice.)

Gary, The same stuff goes on over there, too. Just not as bad, nor as far off subject. The political crap is not missed at all, but the puritism and bigotry have found a happy home there, to an extent. There have been times when Bob Shaw has had to pull the plug there too. (And if you left this NG completely.... How did you read this? Just curious ) Personalities aside, I find all of the forums have their charm, and their detractors. The detractors seem to move around a bit, just as in real life. Happiness is wherever you are...if you are happy. Searching for it can take some time, especially if you don't really want happiness, just shoulders. Not a slam, but a comment. Keeping stats isn't a good thing either. I would be suspect of the sanity of 3168 post's as compared to the next few... Jeff (and I include myself in that group, just to be fair ) Rice

"studegary" wrote...

*** Posted via a free Usenet account from ***

Well said Lee, glad to see I'm not alone here. Yeah, I have looked at the SDC forum, but it just isn't as easy to navigate as the NG. I should probably hang out there more. I have come and gone here, and this most recent time I've come back it was being nice and chill and staying either humorous or on topic. I had high hopes that people had learned that that stuff isn't doing us any good. By the way, I did get to meet Studebob at his place. Great guy, here's a picture of that meeting.

Richard Lawler

'57 1/2 ton Transtar '51 2dr Champion

Only forum I've found where this doesn't happen on a regular basis is the Yesterdays Tractors forum

But I see that they do have a section called: Politics, Tractor Wars and Controversial Conversations A place to talk about things the moderator usually deletes - not for gentle folk or children.

So I'm guessing that they ran into this in the past as well... I wonder if anyone there cares to hear my opinion on those subjects. Maybe I better not.

Lee

*** Posted via a free Usenet account from ***

Club Hot Rod, and the H.A.M.B. have a separate area, which is great. Jeff (I never waste my time going over there ) Rice

"Lee Aanderud" wrote...

I looked at a few pages and this is kind of on topic:

Lee

*** Posted via a free Usenet account from ***

Keep looking - maybe there's a forum out there where you are free to spread as much of your opinion as you like without having to put up with anyone else's. I've never found it, but who knows. Maybe Fox News has a forum?

This NG is still the paradise you describe, I'll help anybody out with Stude stuff if I can and I've always found answers to my myriad questions here. If Stude stuff is all you're interested in, OT is a warning you should heed. Especially if it's in the subject line of one of my posts, apparently.

I d> I remember the early days when I found this NG and thought I had found

See, that's the difference between you and I. I'm not here to spread my opinion. I'm sure Fox News has a forum, if you want to agitate people with your opinion, why don't you go there. That's what those forums are for. This is a Studebaker forum. And I think from now on I'll be keeping a close watch on the OT posts (especially yours) to keep you guys in check.

Richard Lawler

'57 1/2 ton Transtar '51 2dr Champion

Wanna read over your posts of the past week and rethink that statement?

There's an old saying - the only way the dance will end is when somebody leaves the floor. If harmony is that important to you, just be quiet and there's no discord. If you want to jump in, don't complain about the noise.

Easy, eh?

Richard Lawler wrote:

Nope, I said exactly what I meant. I was responding to opinion. And even more than that, I was defending my beliefs that I saw being attacked. I didn't attack anyone's opinion until they put it out here. Harmony is important to me. However, remaining silent when someone is attacking my beliefs is not something I care to do any longer. I will not wage a pre-emptive war. I will never post an OT post that is even remotely political, but as soon as you (or others like you) post your political crap that attacks what I believe I am going to be all over you like white on rice. I'd hate to think that some lurker would be watching and think that your opinions represent the opinions of the NG as a whole. In the past I've put up with that crap and just shook my head, but no more. If you want to keep spreading your opinion on here that's fine, but expect me to remain silent no more, and trust me, I know how to bring it.

Richard Lawler

'57 1/2 ton Transtar '51 2dr Champion

Sorry, you did attack - your uninformed diatribe about Carter, if I recall. I responded with extensive quotes and links to facts and you attacked with more opinion. If you don't back it up, it's opinion.

See, I pointed out that Carter voiced EXACTLY THE SAME SENTIMENT as Bush, but 30 years earlier. He could see that dependence on imported oil was a threat to national security, but conservatives (who abhorred the notion of conservation - go figure) did all they could to obstruct that path.

Now you call Carter an idiot while praising shrub for saying exactly the same thing. Your response to my facts was this:

"Oh Oh, looks like I touched the Carter nerve. I did say he was slightly better than WJC, I mean Carter never torched any Americans in their homes right? Of course, it's not too surprising that a president ruling over a country with gas lines (and facing losing a landslide election) might start talking about energy conservation. Jimmy turning down the therms was a great energy policy huh, really seemed to help. The difference between Carter and Clinton was Carter probably wanted to do some good for the country, he was just so inept he couldn't have found an elephant in a phone booth."

Can you help me find the fact in that diatribe?

Touch> Nope, I said exactly what I meant. I was responding to opinion. And

I recommend M16's at 5 paces. Ten rounds be enough? Of course it's easy for me to say. I'm a Canuck.

But speaking of Prez Carter, did you know his first car was also the first American car I ever saw. In fact, I own one today. If Sheldon Elias is listening he's the one who examined it for me in Florida about 5 years ago. Oh, yeah. That's my '48 Stude Commander. Carter's first automobile. You've gotta admit, if nothing else, the man had taste.

Best, JoeH.

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1.45 Billion in tax breaks for oil companies. What blows me away is that > you defend this crap while it hurts you as much as anyone else. What in > god's name would make so many people vote against your own best interests? > As William Jefferson Clinton so eloquently put it: "If you want to live > like a Republican, you should vote Democrat.">

It's rare I lurk here now, just for this reason.

Too bad, I miss a lot of the fun, because It's buried in the crap.. I checked in today, and see I'm not the only one hating the horseshit that's posted here, and I find the SDC site more awkward. Life's too short. at least I'm out having fun instead of looking at this damned electronic box so much.

Ron ( and no, I won't check to responses to this)

a few of you guys and what all is >Well said Lee, glad to see I'm not alone here. Yeah, I have looked at

Ron/Champ 6

1963 8E5 Champ (Champ 6) 1995 VW Passat (Vanilla..yuk) 1994 Volvo 850 (Tilley) 1973 Volvo 1800 ES (Hyacinth Bucket)

Years ago I saw a picture of Carter's studebaker in a outbuilding on his property,in the news paper.I got the biggest kick out of that!

And to give George Bush Sr. his due, here's an excerpt from the biography of his wife:

"Simply Barbara Bush: A Portrait of America's Candid First Lady," by Donnie Radcliffe and published after Bush's 1988 election victory:........ "With $3,000 left over after he graduated in June, 1948, he (George Bush Sr.) headed for Texas in the 1947 red Studebaker (Commander) his father had given him for graduation after George's car died on the highway."

There you go. Both presidents riding around in Studebaker Commanders in the same year, 1948. What could be greater evidence that these men were the stuff of presidents. Nay, great presidents. In fact, I'm convinced they would have had the great taste to be driving Presidents had Studebaker made them in '47-'48.

Best, JoeH.

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> 1.45 Billion in tax breaks for oil companies. What blows me away is that >> you defend this crap while it hurts you as much as anyone else. What in >> god's name would make so many people vote against your own best >> interests? As William Jefferson Clinton so eloquently put it: "If you >> want to live like a Republican, you should vote Democrat.">>