Escape vs Forester

Hi, Also consider resale/trade-in value. Subie wins here as well. Tony

It was a POS Ford that drove me to the Japanese. This happened over 10 years ago but I vowed never to buy another Ford. Not only was the car crap but I had to sue them for warranty replacement of engine :( Frank

I went through this same decision less than two years ago. I was looking at the Mazda variant rather than the Escape, but they are pretty close.

When I first had the Forester, a friend (intending to rattle my chain) said, "That's nothing but a glorified station wagon." That comment always stayed with me because it's so true, and it explains what I was looking for. The Escape is a mini-SUV, and as such is considerably higher, bigger, more imposing. The Forester sits lower, and thus is much easier to get in and out of, and also handles much more car-like. Parking is a breeze, and it fits into the short side of the garage. Rather than sitting down into a car, or climbing up into an SUV, the Forester is right at "ass-height", and is appreciated by the overweight, the elderly, and the generally infirm.

There's plenty of headroom (although I'm not tall), and the cargo capacity is excellent, keeping in mind that's it's just a "glorified station wagon". ;-)

Many times over the past 18 months, I've seen an Escape on the road, or parked next to one, and thanked my lucky stars that I picked the Forester. We all have different priorities of course, but that's my 2 cents worth.

...Ron

P.S. My wife likes the Forester so much that she has appropriated it, and now I'm forced to decide between a WRX wagon and the STI "matchbox car" (my wife's moniker, not mine). If they bring out an STI wagon for '05, my dilemma will be solved!

Why not add the Outback wagon to the short list? It actually has a larger cargo area than the Forester (longer), and to me, is a heavier, more substantial vehicle. Last weekend I rented a Forester on a business trip to Oregon, and drove it some 600 miles over three days. While I liked it, I definitely liked my OBW better for handling and road "feel."

The Forester has more head room, and visualy looks bigger from the outside, but I think you'll find that the Outback has plenty of room. The Outback wagon is based on the larger Legacy platform, while the Forester is based on the smaller Impreza platform. The Legacy is rated as a "midsize" car, while the Impreza is a "compact."

My '04 XT Premium weighs 3,289 lbs. That's about what a Honda Accord or Toyota Camry weighs. The Subaru web site says an Outback wagon weighs 3,495 w/ AT. OK, so about 200 lbs. more to haul around with that 165 HP engine. Not a fabulous power/weight ratio, IMHO.

Before getting my Forester, I tried the OBW. Had a lot of trouble getting into the thing, particularly getting my right thigh under the steering wheel, even with the wheel at max height. I'm 6'2" and, yes, a bit overweight, but not enough that I have such trouble in any other car. The Outback just seems a bit cramped inside, compared to a Honda Accord, for example. Certainly my Forester doesn't seem cramped inside.

OK, I'll admit it: I'm wildy enthused with my Forester, and very happy with the purchase. My first Subie. And I highly recommend the turbo.

Ron, I could have written this note! You've described just as I tell it about the advantages of the Forester. And, yes, I considered a Tribute. One time climbing up into the thing was all the convincing I needed that a Mazda would not be on the short list. I didn't want a car I'd have to climb up into, or crawl down into. The Subie is perfect "ass-height," as you say.

Only difference between us: my wife is still quite pleased with her Volvo, and won't be trying to take over my Forester. (I'd resist mightily if she did!)

HW

We went to the dealer to make the deal on the Forrester XT. WHile we were waiting, we saw an '04 OBW LLBean Edition (6 cyl) in the showroom. We tried it out, and went home with that instead of the Forrester. OBW Pros: Nicer interior, more comfortable, more features that we preferred, better handling, more room everywhere. XT Pros: Power. Zooooommmmm!

I agree with the other poster. The Forrester only appears to be larger. It is definitely smaller.

Cargo space is about the same. Forester is built in Japan while OBW is built in the US. XT can be had with a stick and LL Bean can't be. You may not give a damn, but I won't buy your OBW when you are thru with it even though the engine is better and it sits lower, handles better, etc. To me used Legacy or OBW is worth $#^&. I don't care what blue book says. It's for gullible morons. That is not to say that you won't find a buyer. After all there are idiots who'd buy a 10 y.o. turbo and pay a lot of money for it.

Just my 2 pesos.

If you want my two duckets, I'd base your decision on the cars' features, rather than solely on articles you've read about reliability. Family members of mine own both; I own an Outback wagon. I think the Forester is likely to be more reliable than the Escape, but who knows? You can get a lemon or a gem from either maker. That's what warranties are for.

As far as features, I think the Forester is too small a vehicle compared to the Escape. Its looks are deceiving. Most people new to Subaru are surprised to learn that the Forester falls between the Impreza and Outback in terms of interior size. The Forester's cargo area is at least half-consumed by a large cooler. You might consider the Outback wagon as an alterative to the Forester.

As far as off-roadability, the Escape is better. As far as on-road good and bad weather driving, the Forester is better.

Maintenance intervals being equal (an assumption), the Escape's routine repair costs (belts, brakes, etc.) will be less than the Forester's.

I'd prioritize these features and decide, but don't base it solely on reliability articles because they're generalizations at best.

Agreed, but I expect a lot more than the warrantee period - more like

150-200k miles. Along that line, I wouldn't consider a GM product at any price - Way too expensive at any price when you consider the repair expenses per mile, limited life span vs. cost and their historically poor service/customer relations, etc. One can argue it's different now, but I doubt it. Been burnt on too many GM products to be a sucker again. Then there's the Chrysler transmissions that have been dogs for 10+ years....

I have more confidence in Ford / Mazda, but that's my biggest concern about the Escape/Tribute - is it going to require excessive repairs when it hits 100-120k, is it going to rattle and creak at 50k and is it going to need new tires and brakes every 25k miles as some have suggested. Subaru seems to have a much better long-term, overall reliability - perhaps right up their with Honda and Toyota.

Specs indicate the Forester has 63 ft3 behind the front seats vs. 69 ft3 for the Escape, but the Escape stands 2-4 inches higher, so the question becomes a matter of area vs. volume since height in the cargo area is generally unusable. The Escape is about 2 inches wider, but for 2 or 4 people, that shouldn't be much of a concern. The Escape does, however, have a bit more overall leg room which could be a significant advantage for anyone riding in the back. It also becomes a question of 10-20% better gas mileage (a good $1-2k over the life of the vehicle) for perhaps 5-10% less space.

I keep going in circles - the Escape does have some advantage on space, but reliability (long term cost and aggravation) could be a major drawback. On the plus side, most articles seem to suggest the Escape/Tribute may be much better than a typical Ford reliability. Then again, the Forester's interior seems to be more refined. Back and forth - back and forth......

Back to the Forester, as I don't see any need for off-road performance. In fact, if I get the Escape/tribute, I may go with the 2WD and save the $1200 plus another $1-2K in gas..

Excellent thoughts. Thanks to you and all the others who have responded. Then again, I just read that the 2005 Escape will start production early in January where they reportedly will be improving the sound deadening plus they will be moving the shift from the column to the floor. Reportedly, they have stopped taking special orders for the

2004 model and they will have a Mercury model - the Mariner - to add to the choice. Now if only they can find space for a larger gas tank......

My wife drives a 03 Escape, and I drive an 02 TS Wagon...we're both happy with our vehicles - I'm happy to have AWD and the Subie's reputation is stellar. The Escape is the perfect size SUV for us - not too small, bigger than a Forester, stronger engine (talking non-turbo Forester), higher ground clearence, has a 4x4 lock on it, etc. I did a lot of reading beforehand - I was apprehensive on buying a domestic car, but the Escape did get very high marks in most of the reviews that I read. Time will tell if we made the right choice or not. So far, so good.

If I had to do it all over again, I probably would have bought an Outback instead of the TS Wagon. But I'm happy with my car, and she's happy with hers.

Do a lot of research, test them both out, and then make a decision. I agree that reliability is very important, but plenty of people buy Fords and are happy with them. Like another poster said - you'll have lemons every once in a while no matter what brand you buy. Good luck...

Mort

Whoa, John! Easy, now! Give us one or two more pesos worth here (easy-going ones, please). You went on and on about how you wouldn't buy a used H-6 OBW LLBean but nary a word about why in the world you'd say such things. So far, no cigar!

HW

Same experience for me, except I left the OBW Bean where I found it, in the showroom. I would have considered it, but I've never had so much trouble just getting into a car. The Forester may only seem larger, but the OBW seemed smaller than it appeared outside. I agree: the OBW is a very nice car, but just not for me. As for my Forester, it's very comfortable, as far as I'm concerned.

Large cooler??? I have no idea what you're talking about. Unless.....you mean, there's some gizmo back there to keep my beer cold??!! I'm going to look for that feature first thing tomorrow!

MUCH more reliable than the Escape, I believe. But yes, lemons happen to all manufacturers. (Or should I say, happen to some BUYERS of all manufacturers.

Me too. I burned my bridges to American made auto products long ago. I expect never to rebuild them. And I'm sorry, but that is a plus of the Forester over the Outback, IMO. I've already experienced the drop in some reliability of US-assembled Nissan products.

I'll admit to being one of those with a rattle at 70K miles with one of our two Foresters. But it is a rattle of minimal importance, the blasted heat shields on the muffler. I probably am going to cut them off because fixes seem to be short term in effectiveness, according to what I've read. And the rattle is only at certain speeds and certain days. The rattles and creaks I expect from a Ford/Mazda product (base on observation of some of my in-laws' vehicles) might fall into similar category of small stuff. I really thought when we bought these Foresters (our first ever Subarus) that Subarus would rattle more with little things inside etc. That has not proven true at all. Other than the aforementioned heat shield rattle on mine, our two 99 models are as quiet and sound inside and out as when we got them. I'm pleasantly surprised at that. One is nearing 80K and the other is beyond 71K miles. Neither burns a drop of oil as yet; they still have excellent power, great driveability and handling; paint is holding up wonderfully in spite of my neglectful lack of care the last couple years.

Rear legroom in the Forester IS a limitation if you will use that very often. The seats are pretty hard too, but we use that so little, it is a non factor for us. As to the volume issue, the usefulness of height in the cargo area pretty much depends on what you haul. I have always said that the space inside the Forester compared to the Outback is extremely close in total available space, but it is arranged differently. The Outback is wider and lower in the cargo area, while the Forester has a higher roof height inside. This is quite helpful to me on the occasions I want to stand my bikes up inside the Forester for long trips if weather is too bad. I can use a fork-mount clamp mounted on a board laid across the lowered back seats and mount my bikes upright, only removing or dropping the seatposts (and of course with front wheel removed for fork mount.) This could never work in the Outback with its lower roof height. I also feel like its more spacious because of that roof height (and I'm not tall, at 5' 9".) You have to look at what works for you, obviously.

(See my notes above!)

By FAR. The handling of the Forester is nothing short of amazing, in my opinion. It holds the road under difficult driving conditions almost like a sports car, better than in some ways. The other big issue is ride profile of the vehicle. The lower height of the Forester is a HUGE advantage in windy conditions. After yesterday's terrible winds on the East Coast (USA), I sure was glad it was the Forester I was driving up I-81 in VA. I certainly FELT the wind but the Forester held the line much better than an Escape or any other higher profile SUV would ever manage. I personally hold the lower ride height of the Forester as a significant advantage over ALL SUVs. Of course, it still must meet one's needs in other ways (and it does for us.)

I don't know where you live, but regardless of whether you deal with snow or not, AWD is a _major_ advantage to have, and Subarus system is superb and time-proven. Having owned these Foresters for over 4 years on one and almost 5 years on the other, I have a hard time thinking about going back to any 2WD vehicle. The Forester's handling in rainy conditions is incredible, let alone snow conditions, where it does very well. I do wish we had the limited slip rear differential for its wintertime assistance, but am still very happy with these cars as they are. Next ones will have this for sure.

You're still on the fence, I see. For your sake, I hope you think hard about Subarus. Unless the body design/space layout issues cannot work for you, I think you'll be much happier with them than with a Ford, but that's my biased opinion, and of course I have no reason to care which you choose other than that I like to see folks happy!! Best wishes with whatever and whenever you buy.

That's why they make both, I guess- something for everyone. FWIW, the mechanic at the dealer is about 6'5", and he fit in no problem. He adjusts the power seat all the way down and back.

Smart A$$! What I meant was, if you put a full-sized cooler in the cargo area of your Forester, there's not much room for anything else. The full-sized cooler test is a good one for comparing cargo areas.

(easy-going

OBW for US is built in the United States. Once the warranty expires there is no telling when it starts to fall apart. I haven't seen complaints about lemon Impreza & Foresters on this group but people complain about Legacy quite a bit. You could argue that there are more Legacies and Outbacks sold than Imprezas and Foresters, but I am still not buying that argument. There are a lot of WRXes out there, but there is no word about lemons even though people tend to abuse rexes for obvious reasons.