2.7 overfilled with oil, what damage would be caused

And this would prove what exactly?

| > >

| > >>Well you should be happy to "learn" then that bad dealer service | > >>experiences ARE the exception, NOT the rule. The fact (and reality) is | > >>that the a GOOD experience is the norm. | > >

| > >

| > > Says you. I say the opposite. Who's right? How d'you know? | >

| > I've had far more good experiences than bad with my local Chrysler | > dealership. The only dealer's where I've had more bad than good are one | > Chevy dealer and one Honda dealer. So now it is two against one. :-) | >

| | Ahh see....statistics! :0) |

I have to agree with Matt. I've not had very good customer service experience with GM at all (in general...even with their "corporate" customer service folks...which I read as a pervasive cultural situation that seems to permeate through much of the organization). They simply haven't even come close in comparison to the great long-term "customer" experience I've had with Chrysler/Dodge (almost 20 years). I think I have been dealing with a unusually exceptional Dodge dealer, which could be a big part of that too. Plus I've not had any major (or minor, for that matter) issues with Chrysler products (which I know is statistically out of the norm...but).

One word..... unionize. The dealer cannot move its service dept to India. You guys are in a great bargaining position if you used it.

One word: Horseshit.

Unions, in their current form, exist solely to increase and expand the power and wealth of the union leaders by keeping the workers disinformed and fomenting an antagonistic, adversarial relationship between the workers and the managers.

-Stern

Don't hold back Dan. Tell us how you really feel.

Have to disagree with you. In this age of mega-dealers, a mechanic has no negotiating position by himself. Sure, he could quit and go someplace else but that someplace else is just another mega-dealer.

Sure, then they'll be XX hundreds of dollars poorer from the initiation fees and XX tens of dollars poorer each month from the dues they'll have to pay.

No, but they can import workers from India to take their places, just like other industries are doing.

They're in a great bargaining position if all they do is improve their skills and attitude towards doing the job right the first time.

OK, you tell me: How'd the union help the California grocery workers?

-Stern

Not necessarily... He could hire on at a independent (non-dealer) shop. He can open his own shop. He can work in the aftermarket. He can work in a utility or municipal fleet.

Of course, these probably won't work if he's a one trick pony...

California grocery workers have no special skills. A union in that case could only work in times of labor shortage which does not exist now. A Union's value will come and go just like other parts of the economy. And some unions do a good job and some are crooked. Just like other parts of the economy. Life is not black and white. Lots of gray out there. Or is it grey?

Or he could team up with a bunch of other ace mechanics and try forming a union. All part of the economic process which made this country great.

That works for a programmer making $50 to $75 per hour but for a mechanic.... unlikely.

Survey after survey indicates that employees do not believe periodic evaluations are fair or useful. Basically management just goes thru the motions and employees are not compensated for better skills and performance. If salaries for mechanics were higher, warranty costs would go up and manufacturers would have to better engineer their cars and the consumer would be better off. Some costs might actually go down if the union got rid of the incompetent workers and enforced training standards.

Am I dreaming here? OK I'm exaggerating but you anti-union guys are doing the same.

Bzzt! Tell your butcher that he has no special skills.

If you still have fingers afterward, write back and let us know how it went.

--Geoff

Most of the top producers in our country have no need for collectivism. They are successfully able to negotiate a decent wage and/or go into business for themselves without a union's "help".

I did.

--Geoff

Considering that the average Indian IT worker will work for $6-8,000 dollars per year, and is happy to get that much, I would say that virtually every profession could be done for fewer dollars with imported labor. You don't really think that today's automobile mechanic earns less than $8,000 per year, do you Art? Or that India couldn't throw a ton of resources in the direction of turning out competent automotive mechanics who could then come to the United States, share living expenses, and work for pennies on the dollar compared to American mechanics?

Are you also foolish enough to believe that a union could somehow act to prevent this?

--Geoff

Yes, *IF*. Instead, unions strongly discourage individual excellence. They protest strict training standards and protect incompetent workers, encouraging everyone to work down to the lowest common denominator.

It's yet another question of what we'd like vs. what actually is.

-Stern

Believe me the butcher's at my grocery store have no special skills...... can't tell you how many times I've showed them they mis-marked the cut of meat.

Are you saying that when I bring my car to my Chrysler dealer they will ship the car to India for repair? Didn't think so. But only in India do they get the wages you quote. When brought to the US they get salaries comparable to US workers.

No different than claims that private industry is always better than government work. Enron is a good example unless you have forgotten. A union can be good, a union can be bad. Same thing with private industry and government regulation.

Surely. The claim I am refuting is that unionization always means things get better for the worker. That's just not so.