2.7 overfilled with oil, what damage would be caused

They are not highly skilled technical people are they? That is what we are talking about and the people from India in this country that I know who are highly skilled are making comparable wages to American workers with the same skills. They are usually technically better than the American worker and work harder but their communication skills are poorer.

"One word..... unionize. The dealer cannot move its service dept to India. You guys are in a great bargaining position if you used it."

A union would put them in a great bargaining position but there are no guarantees in life except death.

It's not the first time, Geoff. Art likes to make assertions with no basis in fact. When challenged on them, he backpedals and states he was only expressing an opinion, or changes the premise of his statement and claims that's what he said in the first place.

I guess he's always been this way; it's just we didn't really notice it before with the bigtime trolls (the alleged Emory professor, for instance, and the alleged 4th-grade teacher) making the noise they used to make. I suppose it's a little like finding and fixing noises in automobiles: You find the big ones and fix 'em, and all of a sudden you hear the small ones you didn't hear before.

-Stern

Why is it unlikely? have you heard about what's happening in the nursing profession?

I didn't mention "periodic evaluations."

That certainly has not been my experience.

Warranty costs are not tied to mechanics pay. Mechanics pay is but a minor percentage of shop labor charges charged back to the OEM.

I take it that you're referring to the manufacturing level. How is it that this is seen as a positive on that end of he industry but not out in the service department?

I'm neither pro nor anti union. I've been a member of the International Machinists and Aerospace Workers union and the Oil, Chemical and Atomic Workers union. The IAMAW didn't do jack for my wife who's also a member, the OCAW protected fleet mechanics who couldn't manage an oil change in under three hours. The only thing I was sure of when working in a union shop was how broke I was going to be each week on payday. I've always been able to do better for myself doing my own negotiating and being able to excel where I could. Doing that in a union shop reaped the scorn of the other workers who were either too lazy or too stupid to keep up.

You seem to blame the union but it is people who are screwing up and not the union per se. I could just as well conclude that corporations and private companies are as a whole corrupt by pointing to Enron, Worldcom and tyco but that would not be fair, would it?

A mechanic who wants to work on cars and not manage other mechanics has no other way of gaining negotiating power except by finding other good mechanics and forming a union. What they do with that power is up to them.

Perhaps, but it's the union that protects the fuckups' jobs and forces everyone else to work down to the fuckups' level of incompetence.

You betcha it's the people who are screwing up, but after that happens, the union steps in and saves their asses instead of allowing the natural process take over.

Doesn't matter if it's fair or not considering that it has absolutely no relevance to the concept that one -can- negotiate more money from an employer once they make themselves more valuable by gaining a higher skill level.

Absolutely untrue. The mechanic can gain negotiating power by obtaining more education. Advanced skills are in high demand. Once you've developed those needed skills, you can pretty much command what ever you want. Then there's -my- personal favorite which I've used successfully a number of times, I load up all my tools and as I'm driving out, the dealership owner sends the service manager out to lay down in front of my truck....

Exactly.

My first night working in the fleet at Wisconsin Gas Co. I had finished my first job, an "A" inspection on a 1/2 ton Dodge van. An "A" inspection is a glorified lube, oil change and filter, check the lights and fluid levels, air up the tires, check for and fix anything obvious that was broken. It took me about an hour, mainly because I was still figuring out where supplies and other sundries were kept. As I was approaching the foremans office with the work ticket looking to get my next assignment, the two other guys on that shift headed me off, they asked me what I thought I was doing... I replied; Uh.. I believe it's called an "A" inspection. They replied; no, you don't understand, an "A" inspection takes at least three hours, if you get done sooner than that, take it out and drive it around, park over in the park and read a newspaper or stop and get a coffee and doughnut, but DO NOT turn that work ticket in for another one before at least three hours.

I had this strange feeling that I wasn't going to fit in...

Really?

--Geoff