2000 Concorde LXi Tranmission

Nope.

Labor time is; diagnose 1.0 hrs replace input speed sensor .5 hrs replace output speed sensor .5 hrs

Only if one makes certain assumptions and/or jumps to conclusions.

That would be up to an individual library system. On line, I doubt it.

The dealer charged exactly what the labor guide calls for.

Varies by region.

The manual has claimed "No fluid change is necessary" for decades now. It was OK to follow this suggestion in the days of the overengineered, bulletproof Torqueflite transmissions. With the electronic transmissions, it's difficult to change the fluid often enough.

How lucky do you feel? Are you comfortable gambling the $2500 (plus or minus) repair cost on this academic bit of sophistry?

You don't, if that's the procedure you use. But that's OK, 'cause you don't have to. The idea is fluid replenishment.

No.

Don't worry about it, see Q3.

transmission

The dealership I work at would have charged you 1 hr labor, In order to verify which part is bad you would have had to at least remove the connectors to perform the test, therefore half the work was already done. The book that AArcuda is referring too normally says test and replace, .5 for each sensor. He would be charging you an overlapping time of 1.0 hr. ( 1.5 is an average labor price and as I said on the high side)

Glenn Beasley Chrysler Tech

My answers to your questions are embedded below.

Bob

This is indeed terue, but the early Chrysler FWD electronic transmissions experiencesd a lot of early failures and word of mouth in this group seemed to confirm that frequent changes coupled with additional fluid coolers helped improve the life. I still follow this even though the product has obviously been improved.

Again, absolutely true. My philosphy has always been to do PREVENTIVE maintenance where ever possible. You and everyone else are free to do whatever you like.

Again, I agree. It can't hurt if done right.

I do not get all the fluid out. I just get what I can and let it drain overnight. I figure I get 5-6 quarts each time which is roughly speaking about half.

No special tools needed: A 3/8" ratchet and appropriate metric socket, some extenders, possibly a swivel if there is a bracket in the way (I do not think there was one, but each vehicle was different), a gasket scraper or wire brush, some brake cleaner and a torque wrench to re-tighten the bolts.

See comment above. I do this to get the gunk out of the pan as there is always residue there which I am assuming comes from the clutch material. I also do this to change the filter as well. This just seems like good practice to me as I would never change engine oil and leave in a dirty filter even though this is what the OM says to do every 7500 miles. (I change engine oil and filter religiously at 3K miles and have never had an engine failure of any kind in over 30 years of driving.)

Not true. The fact that, along with the limp mode, the speedometer was not working tells you with a fair degree of certainty that the output sensor was bad.

I get the impression from some people that some dealers would not do certain work, like replace a sensor, without doing and charging for a diagnostic. Out of curiosity, if I walked into your dealership and said "I am pretty certain that my output sensor is bad. If I agree to pay your price for replacing the sensor and accept the possibility that that isn't the problem, will you replace the output sensor without charging me for a diagnostic test?" would they do that?

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my adddress with the letter 'x')

Correct. That's the beauty of the DIY non-power flush method. Combined with first dropping the pan to replace the filter, you then use the tranny's own pump to pump the fluid at normal rates out of the cooler return line. You get a 95+% fluid changeout, cleaned pan and magnet, new filter, and non of the risks of the power flush at minimum cost.

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my adddress with the letter 'x')

That may be true. However, I have read on forums of DC dealers refusing to honor a warranty repair on a tranny because the fluid was not changed. When the customer complained that their driving meets the Schedule A conditions, the dealer claimed that they refuse to recognize that Schedule A driving is possible and that they consider Schedule B the only valid schedule - claim denied.

Glad you asked. I posted this info. recently in another thread: "See this thread on the 300M Enthusiasts forum to see how it's done (300M and Concorde power trains and chassis are identical - in fact, the photos in my post in that thread show where I spliced the cooler return line on my Concorde for changing out the tranny fluid):

". Now - truth is, it is a dilution process, so it will never be 100% fluid exchange. But if you use, say, 12 quarts of fluid in the flush, the replacement will be 95+% complete (vs. 40% of a simple pan drop and add fluid).

System holds slightly less than 10 qts. Dropping the pan ends up "wasting" 4 to 4-1/2 qts. You do the math. 8^)

Another method that is between the method that I posted above and simply dropping the pan as far as effectiveness of fluid exchange is to drop the pan (replace filter), close it up , fill with new fluid, drive for a few miles, drop pan again, close up, fill with fresh fluid. WAG - about 70 to 75% effective exchange of old/new fluid.

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my adddress with the letter 'x')

$65 is about what you can get *both* sensors (combined) for, every day, all over the place. Thanks for posting all this stuff. It reminds me of a big part of why I do as much of my own work as possible.

Yeah - "I like *this* mugger over here better than that one over there because this one only took my cash and not my credit cards too. I really respect him because when he stabbed me, he didn't twist the knife." 8^)

Apparently as much as they want it to be. Let's see - 30 minutes work for $250 - I think that works out to about $500/hr. 8^)

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my adddress with the letter 'x')

Is that what they would have paid you Glenn, one hour?

Misleading at best. There is more to the diagnostic than just checking the sensor.

Really? Did you check? Which labor guide did I use? Chiltons? Mitchell? Real Time?

I suspect that you're BSing since that is not what the labor time guide describes.

Just for the heck of it, I've drafted a letter to Chrysler with most of the comments made here (no names) concerning fluid change. I'm curious to see what Chrysler says. When I hear from them, I'll post the results.

Thanks to all of you for the help and comments. I picked up a few pointers.

whats not true?

The fact that, along with the limp mode, the speedometer was

And yes if the cust only wanted the part we would have to install the part. The same as nrake work, if the cust doesnt want the rotors turned, we wont machine the rotors, There will be notes on the owners RO

I wonder if you read the word normally in this statement?

transmission

Good luck in getting a reply back from them

Read the very next sentence I wrote. You said that to verify which part (I assume you mean input vs. output sensor), you have to run a diagnostic. My very next sentence (still below) says that the fact that the speeodmeter doesn't work when it goes into limp mode tells you that it's the output sensor. If the customer already told you that, then you are ripping him off by charging him to re-discover what he already told you that completely diagnoses it for you.

Well good. So why do you perform and charge for a diagnosis when the customer already told you the work he wanted done and the diagnosis won't affect the outcome? That's like going to a doctor with a cut on your finger, and he won't sew it up until he takes photos of the cut and sends it off to a specialist to verify that it is indeed cut and that it needs to be sewn up. For goodness sake - sew it up and quit gouging the customer with bogus charges.

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my adddress with the letter 'x')

Yes I did. Your use of the word "normally" suggests that on one day the page in the labor guide says one thing and on another day, it says something else.

Output speed sensor died or connection came loose.

Without a valid output speed reading, the transmission controller assumes that the transmission is slipping and reverts to "limp" mode- you have 2nd gear and reverse, nothing else.

as though I were stuck in first gear.

Second gear, actually.

. Now I sit here

Sensors are cheap. Probably $30 or so for the part, plus installation.

Nothing inherent. Replace the sensor and get on with life.

Let me play Karnac the Magnificent, and I'll predict the reply: