PhotoRADAR lens any good?

Sorry, Budd - it happened. See these articles:

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This was discussed on this ng back in '04
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, and Nate Nagel posted links to those as well as another article with the documentation - unfortunately the link to that other article is now dead. The article make it clear that there are many cases in which public safety was sacrificed for profits - yellow duration was intentionally made short to up the take when it was clearly shown that slight increases in yellow duration reduced red-light running infractions (by 96% as stated in one article). From the first article:

"A 2001 report entitled ?The Red Light Running Crisis: Is it Intentional?? commissioned by U.S. House of Representatives Majority Leader Dick Armey, R-Texas, and researched by the non-partisan General Accounting Office of Congress, found some startling information about these camera enforcement programs.

"From Oregon to California to Arizona, to right here in Virginia, traffic engineers have shortened yellow light times to catch motorists going through red lights.

"You think I?m hung up on conspiracy theories? Think again. Reports abound of local governments tampering with light timing to increase local government revenues by handing out more traffic fines.

"Two attorneys representing motorists in San Diego forced the release of confidential documents describing that safety was never the primary consideration of the red light camera program in that city. None of the cameras were placed at any of San Diego's 10 most dangerous intersections. Instead, the documents showed that the camera operators purposefully sought out mistimed intersections as locations for red light cameras to trap motorists and net a new source of revenue for city hall. A single camera brought San Diego $6.8 million in just 18 months in 2000-2001.

"In Beaverton, Ore., TV reporters timed the length of the yellow lights at intersections without camera enforcement and found it to be a consistent four seconds. When they timed the lights with camera enforcement, yellow only lasted for three seconds ? across the city.

"Yellow signal time at intersections is directly related to red-light running: When the yellow light is short, more people run the red light. Inadequate yellow times cause motorists approaching an intersection to come to a sudden stop, or force them to enter the intersection on a red light. In Virginia, a study conducted in 2001 in Fairfax County found that simply increasing the yellow time at a given intersection by 1.5 seconds reduced red-light infractions by 96 percent, which was significantly better than the drop in infractions resulting from the red light cameras they had installed."

"In Mesa, Ariz., after the city increased yellow times at its intersections in response to motorist complaints, red-light runners dropped by 70 percent. The camera program turned into a big money loser, because it cost more to run the cameras than the ticket revenues they were generating."

From the second article:

"'One of the most troubling aspects about the use of red-light cameras is that they turn a key function of law enforcement over to private contractors', said Marshall Hurley, a Greensboro, N.C., lawyer.

"'Red-light surveillance cameras combine the worst traits of government arrogance and corporate greed,' he told subcommittee members. In many localities, 'the camera schemes are based on the concept of a government kickback' in which companies that supply and operate the cameras collect a portion of the fines.

"In North Carolina, it's $35 of each $50 fine. In San Diego, it's $70 of each $271 fine. 'Both the government and its contractors have an immense financial stake in the violation of traffic laws,' he said.

"In San Diego, motorists who have been ticketed have filed a class-action suit contending that contractor Lockheed Martin IMS tinkered with sensors and selected intersections with short yellow lights to maximize the number of motorists who could be ticketed.

"Former San Diego Mayor Roger Hedgecock, now a radio talk show host, denounces red-light cameras for increasing the number of rear-end collisions as motorists make sudden stops for short yellow lights. Lengthening the time for yellow lights would cut red-light running as effectively as installing red-light cameras, Hedgecock contends, adding that a study by the city of Tempe, Ariz., reached the same conclusion. "'But here's the rub.' Tempe also hired Lockheed Martin IMS to install red-light cameras at a number of intersections, and 'the Lockheed Martin contract prevents the city of Tempe from extending the yellow light interval where Lockheed's cameras are in place,' he said."

A paragraph that I posted to that thread in '04: "I guess my take on the whole thing, since people's lives are at stake from red-light runners, is that camera ticketing can be used, but *NOT* until the legal system is set up to pay a *hefty* bounty to citizens who accurately report a short-cycled yellow, and the municipalities are forced to: (1) pay the bounty without delay and without challenge when the report is certified to be correct (false reporting would be met with a stiff fine to counter people who just want to put a roadblock in the way of the legal system), and (2) Shut down the camera until the intersection's timing system is subsequently *certified* to be within the legal parameters (which would be somethng like 4 seconds for a typical intersection). "

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')

Reply to
Bill Putney
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Heh heh! I take it that you're joking, but, in case you're not, I'm sure they are keenly aware of the fraud schemes that have been set up with these cameras in the name of public safety when municipal revenues and private greed are the real motivation in many cases. If that can be eliminated (i.e, safeguards put into place to ensure that the yellow light timing is not manipulated) then I would have no problem with them.

Otherwise innocent citizens (presumed guilty when "caught" by the cameras, or, worse, when injured or their cars damaged in a rear end collision) are powerless against the corruption.

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')

Reply to
Bill Putney

Well Budd you just keep on pissing into the wind. From the Texas Dep't. of Transportation website...

"Speed limits on Texas highways are set by the 85th percentile method, which represents the speed the majority of drivers will be traveling at or below. This is a sound engineering principle used to set speed limits on highways nationwide for the past

60 years."

So, the limits are set to guarantee that statistically at least 15% of drivers will be speed> Bill,

Reply to
Dipstick

Hi...

Only needs a little editing... :)

"... to guarantee that statistically at least 15$ of drivers will be available to pay an optional tax"

Take care.

Ken

Reply to
Ken Weitzel

According to your previous reply, I seem to be in error, but I don't remember being in this group in '04 or seeing those posts.

I am not joking about requesting info from DOT. To be honest, I find your implication that I was joking about public safety to be insulting, but as I've learned from other newsgroups, apologies are unknown in Usenet.

As for notifying DOT of fraud schemes, if the Fed DOT has regs being violated, then public apathy ("let someone else get involved / do it") is why they are getting by with it.

How can the criminals be caught if they are not reported?

Budd

Reply to
Budd Cochran

Fine, at least I'm doing something instead of whining about it.

Budd

Reply to
Budd Cochran

Hah! No apologies, huh? See my post in this thread:

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Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')

Reply to
Bill Putney

Mr. Putney;

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Complete manual:
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FHWA homepage:
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Now you know if there are Fed regs or not and that if lights are set too short, they can be sued, but you better have evidence.

Budd

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Reply to
Budd Cochran

Thanks for posting that, Budd. I now have it bookmarked.

Note that those are mainly "guidleines" (3 to 6 seconds, with longer durations reserved for higher speed roadways) in there, so it leaves things to judgement of the highway engineers and authorities. But the concerns would be where a given city would have some intersections with no cameras at one yellow duration, and otherwise similar intersections with cameras, and the intervals are noticably shorter on those (even if neither duration technically violates the low end of the guidelines.

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')

Reply to
Bill Putney

The problem is to determine if the shortened light duration is deliberate, or just human error. Man is fallible, obviously, or he wouldn't need laws to protect himself from himself.

And, please, never accuse me of joking about safety. I spent too many years working in a muffler factory where you could tell how long a person had been employed by the number of fingers missing. I'm one of the rarities in that I still have all mine.

Cya,

Budd

Reply to
Budd Cochran

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