If Ford had Cummins?

All of this discussion has left me wondering when I can expect my lift pump not to go out?

:-) Craig C.

Well I'm not sure what a small number is but at the time they were unable to get enough pumps to go around.

It was a problem that dc was aware of as they finally did something with the pump. Screw the cost of the pump.

No shit! Just like here. Don't you think that 400 post about lift pump failure is a lot? I'd bet it would go up a bunch if I searched just lift pump.

Gee, I think I've posted about how happy I've been with the 05.

Roy

Don't you think that this is a little subjective? Say 400 out of 500 is damn sure a lot, but out of 10's of thousands, etc.. :)

my understanding of the situation was that dc simply with held the lp's for two reasons. first, they wanted to be sure that if they replaced a lp, the truck was checked for mods. the bombed engines had a whole lot more lp failures than the stock ones. as a result, the lp had to ordered when actually needed, dealers couldn't stock them. the other reason was that the lp's were being upgraded constantly and dc wanted to be sure that only the latest version was put on as a warranty repair rather than one that a dealer stocked that was an earlier version. also, they wanted the old ones back because the supplier was taking them apart trying to figure out what needed to be fixed on them.

not saying that stock trucks didn't have problems with lp's, just that the bombed ones had a lot more issues. the bombed trucks put too much stress on a "weak" part. personally, i knew a lot of people with those engines. i had a '01. i didn't know anyone personally that ever had to replace a lift pump, but none the less, i know it was a weak part of the fuel system from other peoples postings. it was never bad enough for a recall and i think that mike is right when he says is has been over stated by many. i know the service guy at the dealership. he said it wasn't that bad out here, they replaced some bad lp's but not that many. dc told him that fuel quality played a part in it too. fuel out here is pretty good. i don't know how true that is, but that is what he was told. anyway, the latest versions of the lp supposedly were pretty solid.

A quick (very quick - as in, first hit) Google search turned up the following:

where they claim a 17% failure rate of the lift pump over the entire warranty period. They don't break that down by years, but I would assume it includes '98.5 through '04.5 (the years of an electric lift pump mounted to the engine).

thanks tom, a little "bit of facts" never hurts anyone. i have to admit, that surprises me. it is higher than i would have thought. almost one in five going bad isn't too good! good that they got it fixed.

not until his lift pump takes a shit on him anyway.

......im really surprised to hear how they treated you. i wonder how much influence the dealership has over these decisions? mine failed within 20 miles of my warranty expiring so they replaced the injection pump "just incase" since they knew my warranty would expire on my trip home from the dealership. THATS customer service like ive never known, and it came straight from the cummins rep that the dealership called. i wonder why they would do so much for one customer, and so little for another.

i agree. most folks ive met that had the same issue were also running stock trucks.

i think my '05 bighorn dually (

) is the "ultimate" truck......the cummins 610, the way towing mode allows overdrive.....i definately prefer the headlights over the '06 model (my OPINION max!).....but if given the chance to buy a new '05 4x4 dually or a new '02 4x4 dually i would take the new '02. i prefer the look (that restyle was awesome from day 1!), i prefer the sound (sounded like a diesel), and i definately prefer the interior. when my 4x4 dually powerstroke ( )sells im going to replace it with an '01.5/'02 cummins with an automatic.

LOL! :-)

Not when you figure the membership of the tdr. The membership is not 10's of thousands.

Roy

Reading Tom's post 17% is not a small number. With regard to bombed trucks the l/p wasn't covered under warranty so I doubt it is part of the 17%

Roy

Why do most here assume that DC isn't capable of designing and building an engine that is equal to or superior to the Cummins offerings?

according to the article tom, those stats were from before the six sigma project ("It was about a 17% failure rate over the entire warranty period [before the Six Sigma project].) which appears to have been in '01. if that is the case (and its certainly possible that im missing something) then the actual percentage would be much higher. my lift pump failed under warranty in '04. ill read the entire article a little later to see if im missing something somewhere

good catch, i missed that. i wonder what the actual total would be.......i want to show that it was at least enough to reasonably classify the issue as "rampant".

you're right as i said in my post after the one you are referring to. that is a huge number. this is the first time that i have ever seen a definitive figure placed on the failure rate. i assume that the article is pretty accurate, there would be no reason for the people quoted in it to bend the truth. seems like that high a figure would (or certainly should) trigger a recall on the parts, or at least an extension of the warranty for that part. it never did though and all through the period that they were having lp problems i read several articles where dc said the problem was very small and isolated. one out of five isn't isolated. i don't know though, im not a mechanic and maybe there was more to it.

on the bombed truck, that wasn't my point. my point was simply that the lp's weren't backlogged, they were just held at the main parts distribution center because for a while at least, dc felt that bombing was a major reason behind this taking place and they wanted to be sure that the dealers checked for mods before sending out a new lp. whether or not those denied warranty claims are included in the 17% figure, i have no idea......... but i imagine you are probably right. at the start of the problem though, the bombed trucks were being covered on warranty, so some of them undoubtedly are included in the figure. the lp fiasco, if you will, is what really fired dc up about mods and bombing because they were convinced, as i said at first, that that was the root of the lp problem. or at least that is what i have heard from my dealer service guy.

well............if the 17% figure is accurate.............and i have to assume at this point that it is............then that would qualify in my book as rampant. now, my book isn't very official but never the less, one out of five would be rampant to me. as i said before, it seems like that should have set off a recall. i remember some folks on tdr talking about a class action suit at one time several years ago, over the lp problems. they researched the failure rate there and never could come up with a figure, other than an unofficial poll on tdr. the poll's are probably still there if someone had a membership and the time to search several years of posts. it would be interesting now to see what their poll showed as a rate and compare it the 17% figure. a pretty "fair share" of the tdr trucks are bombed so it would be fun to see if there was a significant increase there. abyway, i digress. several of the members contacted their dealers and dc to get a failure rate and were pretty much just blown off as i recall. it really would be intersting to revisit those old threads now.

Well Nate, thats because I live in reality, not this newsgroup. I look at what I can see with my own eyes and can verify through my own senses far before I look at anything said here without context or verifiable source.

That may seem strange to you, but really, its the only way to go.

Certainly seems to be a high rate, but the questions it raises are:

Is it a quality issue or a location issue?

Is this solid data or just grandstanding to prove the success of a new QC program?

That said, I find it fascinating that no one I know (and I know quite a few) around my geographic area has ever had a problem, yet the failure rate is said to be 17%.

Roy, I can certainly understand the issues of any part failing and not being in stock. But I think the alarm is because of availability, which speaks to a problem other than QC, that of dealership care of the customer.

On THAT issue, DC has been lacking.

Broke = broke

I dunno.... given that it's someone from Cummins providing the data, you'd kinda have to give them the benefit of the doubt that they're not just pulling a number out of their ass.

Sounds like a conspiracy :)

Your kidding right?

Roy