If Ford had Cummins?

i didnt buy a dodge, i bought a cummins. when chrysler replaces the cummins with a mercedes, ill have a new king ranch cummins.

It would be a tough call, but I'd probably go with the Ford. I like the Ford chassis and cab better than Dodge, so it's not that. It's Ford's proven track record of taking things that are perfectly good and f***ing them all up. (Reference them insisting on dicking around with the injection system/software from Navistar on the 6.0L). From a maintenance point of view, they seem to engineer the convenience out of everything. I wouldn't put it past them to require to to remove an axle to change a tire (exaggeration, but you get the idea).

The powertrain would be the deciding factor, and would tip the odds in Ford's favor, IMO.

Ugh.... me driving a Ford.... what's the world coming to? :)

That's what I was wondering, nate... I've heard a few folks say that they didn't buy a dodge, they bought a Cummins with a Dodge wrapped around it.. Mac

Mopar or no car!

Mike

I bought a 2004 Ram 3500 several months ago to pull my 36' 5th wheel. It is running a little rich so I called the local Cummins shop to set up an appointment and was surprised, no, shocked to be told that they couldn't work on Dodge Cummins newer than 2002 since Dodge totally owned the engine and Dodge dealers were the only ones that could read the computer codes.

The dealer I bought mine from had changed the oil and put a sticker on the windshield to have the oil changed again in 3,000 miles! I don't want them working on my truck!

How do the folks in here handle this problem.

Thanks,

Ken

dropping the cummins will be their biggest f*ck up to date. cummins saved dodge from bankruptcy, and has kept them alive since. this is typical german arrogance....afterall their product simply must be superior to anything we could make.....and it will be their undoing. they just dont understand the american consumer, such as thinking commercials of an elitist german answering consumer questions actually appeals to joe six-pack.

Did I miss something here? You make it sound like this is a done deal (MB to replace Cummins)?

I bought the best truck and the best engine on the market. I'm not so hot on the newer Dodges, and Ford engineering has been shit for years. The more I see, the more I'd be inclined to buy a used 2000 Ram Cummins if I won the lottery.

If Dodge goes to a Mercedes Diesel, I might be tempted to take the weight advantage of the Cummins for the power/weight ratio of the Mercedes equalling great MPG for the power. The only thing that matches a good American diesel is a German engineered diesel. But the Dodge/Mercedes diesel would be a second truck, not a replacement for the '00 in the driveway.

It would be their only f*ck up since going with the Cummins in 88. Since then, the truck line has consistantly grown in sales until the recent fuel pricing.

Rubbish. Chrysler was saved from bankruptcy by the K-car. Restyling the pickup was what made the trucks sell more, since 5 years of Cummins availability (88-93) did jack shit for sales volume.

Their diesels have consistantly made more power for the weight of the engine. These two key numbers are what makes a vehicle get better fuel economy and performance. Sure, they are arrogant, BUT... the German designed diesel is a very good product.

The Cummins is very popular but the replacement, if there is one, will be at least as good regardless of popularity.

Sadly, Deiter Zeitsche is far from being an elitist German, about as far as Lee Iacocca was from being an elitist Italian immigrant. Certainly both were upper class and well off, but neither was elitist. BOTH realize that to sell cars, one has to market an affordable product to the masses.

"Dr. Z" is the only reason Chrysler and DC as a corporation are still operating successfully today. Want proof? Look no further than the Board of Directors who dumped Jergen Schremp in favor of Zeitsche because Deutsch Bank demanded some one who knew what they were doing be promoted. Chrysler was still making a profit when Mercedes started heading for the tank several years ago.

You want an elitist German? His name was Jergen Schremp. You want elitist Americans? Look at the execs that sold Chrysler to the krauts in the first place.

How about really elitist..... Like FoMoCo dumping 10,000 white collar workers to cut costs..... How the f*ck do you hire 10,000 extra people who are NOT directly involved in production? Easy..... you elevate your cronies so they too can enjoy the upper class payscale.

How about arrogant..... Like GM deciding that in order for Delphi to be able to proceed without rolling bankruptcy, all the workers had to take 55% pay cuts to $10 an hour. Yeah, thats down from $24 an hour. Exactly who do you figure would take that deal willingly?

Face it, at this point Chrysler is the only american manufacturer that is running anywhere near the black ink, and isn't scurrying for solutions to insolvancy. They must understand something about the American consumer.

my understanding is that the cummins contract expires in 2010, and that at that point dodge will switch over to the mercedes engine. this is certainly in keeping with the goals of daimler (cross platform designs showing up particularly in the jeep lineup).

no, there have been others. giving up the bragging rights of being top dog (in terms of torque) to the duramax is one. the chrysler/daimler merger is one. the rampant lift pump failure issue is one. i keep hearing something about the #5 cylinder. dropping the jeep cherokee for the liberty is one. killing the tj is one. going with a v6 is one (carries far more significance in jeep circles than truck groups). there are plenty of f*ck-ups, im only saying this will be their (daimler/chryslers not just dodge) biggest to date.

the kcar was a big hit certianly, but it died as fast as it rose. the restyle was great, but surely you dont think it would have been as successful with a foreign diesel? ford has been trying to get their hands on the cummins for some time. for years ive felt that ford builds the best truck on the market, and putting the best engine in the market will be the boost ford needs to get back on top.

sure, but that has less to do with sales than marketing. just the fact that it says "cummins" on it sells engines. todays duramax is consistantly getting better mileage than todays cummins, and its producing more power with less weight yet its popularity is dying.

most anything german is a good product, but again we have marketing to joe six-pack.

being as good and selling as good are two different matters entirely.

doesnt matter much, as he is perceived as such. joe six-pack doesnt like arrogant foreigners and this is critical if youre trying to get joe six-pack to give you his money.

i dont agree. the top sellers were in place since long before the merger.

agreed, BUT......we're back to joe six-pack. joe six-pack hears his german accent in the commercials and takes note of his arrogance. if you want to sell cars you take the same commercial that "Z" was in and replace him with carrol shelby (or someone similar) and THEN youll sell cars to joe six-pack.

at this point theyre selling the cummins engine. its going to be interesting to see what happens with the release of their new models.

Amen Max!

DC and Cummins just entered into a long-term agreement for a new LD diesel for pickups and SUV's... see the Cummins website. Also, the 6.7L ISB was developed mainly for DC so it is doubtful that DC will drop the MD Cummins anytime soon. When I visited the Cummins MRD plant in Columbus in August, they were already working on some new stuff for DC which is a good sign that DC and Cummins will remain together.

Finally, Dieter Zietsche is anything but arrogant! Anyone who knows the man will tell you the same. Methinks Nate is overreacting (again!) and is just blowing smoke.

Mike

I gotta agree with ya Max.

Roy

That's a little much.

Roy

Interesting:

im stating my opnion of him. i find him arrogant, just as i find you to be an asshole.

dont get me wrong, im saying that dodge is dumping the cummins. im saying if they do (based on industry rumor), it will be their biggest f*ck up.

If sales of Cummins pickups "could" have saved Chrysler from anything...it was a failed attempt. There certainly aren't enough Dodge diesels on the road to positively or negatively effect Chrysler either way.

Take a deep cleansing breath.

i disagree. got any sales numbers? we can argue OPINION all we want, but the sales numbers tell the tale.

i think the redesign in '94 was a great boost in sales, but i do not believe it would have been as successful with any other diesel except perhaps a cat diesel. if any of the big three offered a caterpillar diesel (this entire conversation is afterall, hypothetical) they would take the lions share of the market over night.