Re: My V-10 kicks enviromentalist butt!

-- "Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner"

: > : > > But my American friends pay more per onth for Healthcare than I do : for : > : > > petrol, so I guess I'd be worse off! :) : > : >

: > : > Most of us Americans get ourselves a skill or an education, then go : out : > and : > : > get jobs and get our own health care : > : : > : taken a look at the unemployment stats lately? I didn't think so..... : >

: > %%%% Why not? The Mexicans are able to do it!! I haven't been out of a job : > in 36 years! I have multiple skills from flippin burgers to medicine : > including farming and building houses. : : It's funny, sometimes when someone is complaining about not being able to : find work, I'll offer then a job. : Suddenly it's not a job they want, but a certain type of job they are : looking for. They're not out of work, they're out of their particular job. : If I was out work, I'd take whatever job I could find to feed my family. And : of course, being self-employeed, I'd have no choice as I am inelible for the : unemployment I've been paying into all these years. : Luckily I've never spent beyond my means, and always based my businesses on : solid reality not wishful (re: greedy and risky) speculation. So it's always : been there for me.

%%%% I have several college degrees. I have people regularly tell me that their parents didn't have the money to send them to college. Mine didn't either. At the ripe old age of 23 I got hurt at my well paying job as a heavy steel worker and was soon unable to do it any longer due to 4 broken ribs a dislocated shoulder a dislocated hip a deranged knee and a broken ankle from a 360lb steel beam that fell 2 stories. I ended up working in a factory for $3 hr. with a disabled pregnant wife. An illiterate monkey with

2 days training could have done the same job. After my son was born I quit my factory job and enrolled in college and went for the next 5 years. I worked before school and at night after school. I ran paper routes, pumped gas, flipped burgers and worked on farms. Anything to support my wife and get an education. I do not have any patience with anyone that says; "I can't"! Not one day did I eat from food stamps or collect a welfare check. I ate many meals of wild game with greens that I grew in my flower beds or beans grown in an abandoned dog pen. "A country boy can survive"!! : :

I have diabetes (my own damn fault, never put the effort into being trim) and fractured my neck when I was 17 which gives me some trouble to this day, but I've never been what i would consider disabled. Philosophy meets reality at times like those, and I've always wondered how well I would fair against real adversity. Not half as well as you, is my guess (that particular brand of metal has always been a weakness in my character I fear), so my hat is off to you.

-- "Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner"

I bitch

"Exit" wrote in news:0Y_Na.75541$% snipped-for-privacy@news-lhr.blueyonder.co.uk:

It isn't. We havea few whiners on the newsgroup and a few more out in the real world who like to complain about anything anyone does if they enjoy it. SUVs are on that list. For many people over here, the label "liberal" refers to the degree to which they involve themselves in other peoples' business.

The only time I care what someone else drives is when it's cooler than what I drive, and that is usually the case. I care more about HOW someone drives.

When you see a troll on here making a big deal about something, please don't interpret it to be an important issue to anyone, including the troll. They just do it to be annoying.

Over here in ol' Belgium, those who don't work get their income just as well. The idiots that do work get about 50% of their paycheck in their hands...

-- Pros

-1982 Range Ruster V8-

(E-mail address is forged - reply to group please)

No, more along the lines of we (the govt.) own all the means of production and control the s income of those who buy the production. Thus we control both sides of the economy directly.

I'm afraid thats not true. Global Trade Information Services show that the US exported 8695 and imported 14309 GBP Millions pharamceuticals in 2002. The UK by comparison exported 10031 and imported 7446. We don't put the costs on the non-producers, so why would you need to?

Since this is totally

I'm not saying you should have a national health service, thats a choice for your electorate, but I do suspect the arguments are not being fairly assessed.

So they have actually tried a compulsory purchase of a national industry which then subsequently failed?

Sorry - it's an economy where the govt control the means of production.

I don't doubt the figures, but surely this is precisely what would be expected in a rich economy and dare I say it, be desirable from both a social and economic perspective.

You seem somewhat dogmatic - a nations success surely must not only be measured in dollars, but also how it looks after it's less fortunate citizens and I say this a right wing Conservative.

I'm still waiting - and how much was that bet? ;-)

: > : > > But my American friends pay more per onth for Healthcare than I do for : > : > > petrol, so I guess I'd be worse off! :) : > : >

: > : > Most of us Americans get ourselves a skill or an education, then go out : > and : > : > get jobs and get our own health care : > : : > : taken a look at the unemployment stats lately? I didn't think so..... : >

: > %%%% Why not? The Mexicans are able to do it!! I haven't been out of a job : > in 36 years! I have multiple skills from flippin burgers to medicine : > including farming and building houses. : >

: : : you sure are setting your sights high. I think Chimpyboy should be flipping the burgers. : It's closer to his skill level. Of course he'd have to compete with all those teenagers : looking for work so his chances would not be good. 'Getting an education" doesn't mean : shit if your company moves to Taiwan.

%%%% Yes it does. You need to be able to do more than just glue widgets together or run a column of figures.

: :

Not a narrow perspective, a different perspective. That's all. By the same token, yours isn't a narrow perspective of what it means here, just different. That's what I was trying to determine and believe, at this point, I've done.

We've found that after dumping trillions of dollars into entitlement programs that basically nothing has changed in over 30 years. Except the number of entitlement programs.

I liked National Health. What are Pip Pyle and those guys up to these days?

Nevermind.

Perhaps narrow was unfair - but the debate does seem either black or white from here.

It is a difficult balancing act to manage, but if we can, you can.

Cleaners in the Brompton Road Hospital IIRC. :)

As I said previously anything antithecal to vast majority of the public is never do straight out in this country. So rather than buy a company outright, they set rigid limits on what it can charge, and set up a billion rules it must comply to. Essentially running the company through legistration rather than by direct hand. So it's not like in a socialist cou ntry, be we were refering to what they believe in and desire.

Admittedly here, we have only reached the point of the govt limiting and undermining the means of production.

I don't feel like debating that at the moment. But my point was that the Libs are for ever higher rates on the top tax brackets, more people on the bottom paying ever lower amounts of taxes, and more and more social programs for those unable or unwilling to help themselves. So clearly they believe in and are very efficient at redistribution of wealth.

Where as I believe that a country is only as strong as the intregity of it's people. And intregity I measure by the individuals belief in personal reponsiblity. And that I see (by which I mean I observe it happening in this country) as undermined by the entitlement mindset.

-- "Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner"

I suppose they could from a socialist viewpoint. Tell me Exit, what beliefs of yours seperate you from your more liberal countrymen?

-- "Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner"

Okay, help me out with this one. If every customer (or citizen if you prefer) is getting more service than they are paying taxes to cover.... How is this possible? Or to put it another way, who is getting shafted? The health providers?

-- "Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner"

Personally, I'd like to see everything scrapped and start over from point A. If it can't prove itself to be effective in some predetermined amount of time, kill it off forever.

Anywhere near Tenemos Roads?

Do you feel that way becuase you feel it is inherently unworkable or because it can't be properly developed because people are involved (and flawed).

-- "Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner"

Errr. . . .no, because they are not.

It's quite simple really, the NHS does not generate profit, so instead of x% going to the shareholders of your HMO, it goes back into the service meaning customers get their heath at cost rather than retail. No one gets shafted. The govt doesn't pay 3rd party health providers, it owns all the hospitals and employs all the staff.

Of course it's not perfect, but my experiences have all been very favourable and despite my employer providing me with private healthcare, I have always used the NHS instead and been satisfied.