Re: My V-10 kicks enviromentalist butt!

That's one thing we can always count on :)

I'm too cynical to think it could happen. Both sides would be filling the airwaves tugging on every bias, fear and button known to kill that idea. There just aren't enough brave unselfish leaders out there to push through something huge like that, when the end result is less power and money for them.

-- "Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner"

Part of why it is taken seriously, here is that it is serious. The differences argued might seem little from your vantage point but for me it means how deeply others are allowed to rip into my pocket, and for others it's how deeply into the trouth they can dig. Since I dislike being robbed, it upsets me. Since others have been taught not to handle things themselves they live in fear of this support being taken away, and are angry at the reality of the situation. So angers and fears run high and cloud judegments on all sides. And then the politicians stir up and exaggerate those fears to get votes....

I like that, sounds like a great humbler, and keeps them more in touch with the people. Tough to implement that with such a large population I would think though..

Not really my style (self-reliance and all), it would feel wrong to use a system I pay nothing into.

-- "Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner"

: > > %%%% Yes it does. You need to be able to do more than just glue widgets : > > together or run a column of figures. : > >

: >

: >

: > Oh tell that to the thousands of degreed professionals who are now : jobless. Is absolute : > zero the temperature of your heart? : >

: > (BTW we don't have any widget jobs anymore; just Wart Mart greeters) : %%%% Is being a degreed professional all that they know or is it all they are willing to do? I've pumped gas at a service station and flipped burgers with a degree because the money I was getting was more than I would receive sitting on my ass feeling sorry because I didn't have the job I wanted. I had a family to feed and not the time to sit and whine. I guess that is the way I was brought up to be self reliant and not depend on others.

Absolutely nothing, I rely on it for my income! :)

Yes - I am an entrepreneur by trade, I was merely pointing out that there are circumstances where profit can be better employed than in dividends. The collapse of the USSR taught me that the free market economy that has flourished in the UK for over 3000 years and recently copied by certain North American colonies works splendidly well.

Well what can you expect from a student? I shouldn't think it takes much to fool you, but this time you are fooling yourself.

I provide employment for others in my business - I have only ever provided for myself. Your blind assumptions weaken your argument, such as it is. And I apologise fur all thar fancy book-lurnin' words. I understand the OED difference between those words, but not your North American political dogma version of them.

How can I be foreign? You are the colonist speaking someone elses language whilst occupying someone elses land by force. . . . . . . ;-)

But seriously - if you want to see queues of tens of thousands of immigrants seeking a better life, just come to Britain - we are over-run with them, no longer from the Empire, but now from eastern europe and the middle east. There are more Iraqis in London than baghdad and one of Saddams sisters lives 10 miles from me. Really! Now thats a free country for you! :)

we'll see how I feel about that tomorrow :-(

Very true, but I still hang on to my prejudice that at heart the American majority are worthy people who share most of the aims and beliefs that are prevalent throughout our common history.

So you are saying it's a lot like Michigan? :) (sorry had to but in. Loved your response, and that made me realize another thing I enjoyed in our conversation. I didn't feel I had to dumb-down my vocabulary, which was a refreshing change from most posts.

-- "Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner"

I can't disagree with that. America is filled with great people, but I am cynical that each generation is less so. My own children were partially home schooled, and partially schooled in Canada as their mother refused to allow them into the American Public School system and made a thorough and incontrivertable case for that opinion.

-- "Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner"

You should remember it's only money - nothing worth getting stressed over. There are more important things in life. I personally put a lot of this stress down to inadequate holidays/vacations in the US - you chaps work hard and take no time off to appreciate the finer things in life. Most people get around 25 days holiday per year here which is very civilised.

It works out to about 92,000 people per MP - how many senators/congressmen are there versus the population over there?

I doubt you'd care if you were ill but I respect your ethics.

Good luck to you.

-- "Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner"

Florida has the advantage of trying to work with buisiness, while Mass appears to have been for many years activately try to drive business away (and with me and many others they have succeeded) I do fear the heat a bit, but that is what AC is for. And will be nice to live in a state where the EC doesn't make my Presidental vote irrelevant.

-- "Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner"

After moving West some 30 years ago, everything East of the Continental Divide seems like another world; although I would drop Phoenix like a lit match if I could.

Before my wife, I had a girlfriend from Ireland. I always envied the Holiday system over there. However, while I do work hard, I work for myself, and I tend to hire competant (self reliant) people, so I delegate a lot. While I tend to not take off too much time in a block of days, I don't work all that hard. Money for monies sake has never been a goal of mine. Smelling the roses is very important (especially as I get older). I could have been much richer than I am, but the sacrifices would have been to great. My children are safe and provided for (but fully expect to build empires on their own), my wife is happy. It is enough.

The rest is about Principals, and that's were I get worked up.

Population is what, must be about 275,000,000 by now and 50 senators and 466 congressmen. So that's 5.5 million per Senator or about 600,000 per Congressman (sorry no calculator around) (Just did a search, the population is slightly over 290 million.)

It's moments like that when a persons values are really tested. Wouldn't fly there, but if I was there and they wouldn't let me pay.....

I worked for Blue Cross for about three years once and let me tell you: the cost of health care has absolutely no relationship to the insurance premiums charged. It's legalized extortion; like dealing with the mob... Companies like Blue Cross piss money like it was water. They are "non-profit" so they have to make sure they don't show any profit every year; as a result you should see where they squander their booty (they also invest in lost cause enterprises which are guaranteed money losers; that's not by accident either).

It's Phase One of the Master Plan.

Low income earners here pay ZERO income tax. They are subjected to sales tax, property tax, tobacco tax, beer/wine/liquor tax, assorted fees, etc. that all the rest pay as well. Of course, if they're given everything, they pay no tax. I'm smack dab in the middle of middle class and pay around 40% of my wages back in the form of one tax or another.

LOTS of people have been conditioned for years to expect to have things paid for them - medical care, food, housing, child care, etc. Try telling them they have to start paying their own way. Not only will they object ferociously, but so will the "well meaning" liberals.

I knew I wasn't doing things right. But then, I own the company, so I get paid whatever is left :) Glad I don't have to screw Alan though.... Playing with gold, that might be fun for a moment? Or did you mean Playing golf? Dreadful sport, (for me) don't find it relaxing and way too much sun. Given my choice I'd rather play iwth gold, or maybe reevaluate Alan :)

-- "Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner"

Gees. I can't believe the philosophical discussion you created. This is supposed to be a problem forum, I thought. However, I also like my V10.

Signed, a MELLOWED independent.

Nope. Did that. Lived in LA during the 70's and other than the fact that I hate big cities, it was very livable. Southern CA used to be a really neat place to live. Now fast forward to today. Too many undocumented "people" have taken with their heritage of over crime and drugs. Places like East LA, Hollywood, Watts for gawd's sake! - were really nice bedroom communities after WWI. A lot has changed since then. Never cared for earthquakes either. However, as I have said many times, Phoenix now has all the reasons I left LA - so it's creeping EAST :-)

yeah it's the Alzheimer's and arthritis: should be golf. I am painting with a broad brush but in the larger companies, what I said stands.... You know: the places where employees are just numbers and not people...