Re: GM's Dick Wagonwheel dont wanna rub butts in bed with french

NAFTA ! -Canada, USA, Mexico.

Reply to
Just Facts
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----- Original Message ----- From: "Just Facts" Newsgroups: alt.autos.ford,alt.autos.gm,alt.autos.subaru Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 2:28 PM Subject: Re: GM's Dick Wagonwheel dont wanna rub butts in bed with french

Well Canada and Mexico are part of North America. And as a Canadian friend pointed out, Canadians are Americans (well at least those that don't live in Quebec). In fact any resident of North or South America can claim to be an American. I know most residents of the United States think that we are THE Americans, but that is not technically correct. In fact we don't have a common name that concretely separates US residents from other residents of the Americas (like Canadian, or Mexican). I also imagine the contracts specify that the 70% content must come from North American sources (which still includes Mexico in my Geography books - Central America begins at Belize).

Ed

Reply to
C. E. White

Not so, as it applies to the VIN. '2' is indicated for Canada and '3' is indicated for Mexico, evn if all of the parts happened to be NAP or even American made Content as it apples to the VIN is ONLY American. The US it is '1' if over 70% '4' if more than 40% but less than 70% '5' if less than

40% AMERICAN NOT North American content. This is the last time I will try to enlighten anybody on this subject. You're free to believe whatever you chose, if that is what you prefer

mike hunt

Reply to
Mike Hunter

I understand your explaination perfectly well. The problem is that your explanation is incorrect. Both the Mazda Tribute and Ford Escape have 90% American/Canadian content.

Actually, the Commerce Department has nothing to do with the requirements for the VIN. The requirements for the VIN requirements come from the Internation Standards Organization. The people in the US agency is the Society for Automotive Engineers. And the requirements are also in the US law:

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Apparently, the US Department of Transportation is the US Gov't agency that is responsible for them.

Unless Mazda developed a truck that is identical to the Ford Escape that miraculsy can be assembled on the same line, the US content for the Mazda Tribute and Ford Escape would still be identical.

You have yet to provide any information at all about the VIN that would make one believe that the 1, 4 and 5 mean anything other than assembled in the US.

You have continued to make the same assertations without any evidence.

If you are correct about the NA content about the Toyota and the contract, please provide evidence of that.

All you have been doing is blowing smoke. I called your bluff. You have to support anything you said.

Jeff

Reply to
Jeff

You have told us this over and over. Yet, you are unable to provide any data that would support your claim. You mentioned the US Dept. of Commerce. It is the US Department of Transportation responsible for this. The law that lays down the requirements of the VIN do not mention US content. And the International Standards Institute makes the actual requirements.

I have asked you to provide evidence that the 1, 4 and 5 mean anything other than assembled in the US, but you failed. You have yet to provide any satisfactory explanation of why identical trucks manufactured on the same line with essentially the same parts, both with 90% North American Content, have different numbers. The explanation is that the numbers mean assembled in the US. There are three different numbers because the VIN applies to so many things that are made in the US: Buses, cars, trucks, SUVs, 4-wheelers, motorcycles, trailers, farm equipment, construction equipment. Because of all the stuff made in the US that carry the VIN, the US needed three different first digits.

Jeff

Reply to
Jeff

John Horner wrote in news:9Grvg.12531$k31.4430@trnddc06:

I would guess because CAFE is based on the Average of units Sold. GM might have more models that get 30+ mpg, but if they sell 5-10 times the number of trucks and truck-based SUV's as Toyota, it pulls the average down. And where did anyone read GM is "constantly" at risk of failing to meet CAFE requirements? First I've ever heard of it, and since the media seems intent on tearing into GM at every chance, you'd think it would be front- page WSJ!

Reply to
Jon Patrick

Then why did you write that, except to at least imply that GM and Ford were better than the foreign car makers? Are GM and Ford vehicles more fuel efficient than similar import brand vehicles?

Reply to
larry moe 'n curly

Reply to
Mike Hunter

Reply to
Mike Hunter

You may infer whatever you wish. I did not imply anything of the kind, I simply made a statement of fact and that was many buyer assume they must by Japanese make vehicle that get good fuel mileage. The fact is that is a enormous assumption, since both GM and Ford offer more different vehicles that get 30 or more MPG than does ANY import

As to what is more fuel efficient it depends on your needs, if you can settle for an underpowered mid size car you can buy a 4 cy Camry, or a better yet a 4 cy Honda Civic or Ford Focus that get better mileage for much less money. If you want enough power to haul five people, and all of their stuff more safely, you need to buy a V6 Camry or Accord. Or you can buy a V6 Fusion for much less. If that is the case you might want to look at a safer more powerful V8 Impala that sells for less than a V6 Camry and get the same kind of mileage.

It all depends are ones needs. I know of several people, who live in the mountain area of N. E. PA, that bought small cars thinking they will get better mileage only to discover that running in the lower gears needed to maintain speed on the mountains, the mileage if far from ideal. One even traded his 05 Civic on a larger 06 V8 domestic and his mileage is averaging on five MPG less than he got with the 4 cy Civic, on his 150 mile commute over the mountains to and from work.

mike hunt

Reply to
Mike Hunter

mike, it's obvious you work for GM...if i were you i'd cash out....there may be no pension when the time comes

Reply to
bj

Thanks, I was waiting for your permission to do that.

Why do you assume that buyers assume that? I never have but instead I always check the individual models. But it's disingenuous of you to claim that you're merely trying to point out facts because whenever somebody criticizes GM or Ford, you reply by saying they have more high-gas mileage cars than any foreign company, they sell more cars than any foreign company, etc., you know very well that you do that to persuade people into believing that GM and Ford are better. IOW you sound like somebody from the sales dept.

So what? I don't buy entire model lines, but individual cars.

I mean, which comparable vehicles get the best mileage - comparable in

0-60 times, amount of interior room, cargo capacity, vehicle weight, etc?. IOW, can you show that GM or Ford models use less fuel than similar German or Japanese models?

Consumer Reports said the city/highway/average mileage figures were:

Impala V-6: 13/29/20 Camry V-6: 16/32/23 Camry 4: 16/36/24 (non hybrid)

They didn't test the V-8 Impala but said the Monte Carlo SS was similar and that its V-8 averaged 17 MPG

So how can you claim that the V-8 impala gets the same kind of mileage as the V-6 Camry, unless you're relying on the unrealistic EPA figures?

Reply to
larry moe 'n curly

Its a front wheel drive truck, do we need to say more

Reply to
Picasso

the foreign stuff is better in all cases. they are all over reported though, where did you get htose numbers.

I believe more fromt fueleconomy.gov or canada Energuide.

Reply to
Picasso

Reply to
Picasso

Picasso wrote in news:0yHvg.12702$ snipped-for-privacy@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca:

a surprisingly interesting read for a government report. It still doesn't substaniate the claim that GM "struggles" to meet CAFE standards every year. Sure, their car average exceeds CAFE by 1.5 mpg while Honda's may by 8 mpg, but that doesn't mean GM is stuggling. It means honda sells a LOT of 4 cyl. accords and civics.

JP

Reply to
Jon Patrick

I went to

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choose three Ford cars, and used the comparisons that Ford provides.

Jeff

Reply to
Jeff

You can spin things any way you wish. You obviously buy what you prefer. Surely you do not think other buyers make their own chose, as to what they believe is the best vehicle for their money, when they chose to buy a vehicle? If you don't believe EPA comparisons, based of the same test criteria, whom can you believe? I do not assume anything when it come to where buyers prefer to spend their hard earned money, it is a demonstrable fact that more buyers choose to buy from GM and Ford than any import. But then of course most buyers are not as astute as you, right? ;)

mike hunt

Reply to
Mike Hunter

Now cut that out, logic is not allowed in the NGs discussions, only personal opinions ;)

mike hunt

Reply to
Mike Hunter

Hell I don't even own a GM vehicle, fact are facts ;)

mike hunt

Reply to
Mike Hunter

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