Re: GM's Dick Wagonwheel dont wanna rub butts in bed with french

This list, you know the news group.

Niether would I. I explained how the peopel could have gotton the results. I did not say they would apply to me.

Percieved quality is one of many factors that go into buying a car. There are other factors, like the dealer, the person's history with that make, what friends say, what ads people see on TV, in newspapers and in the subway, what they saw at auto shows, what the currect deal is at the dealer (like 0% financing).

Yet we don't drive under the same conditions as the EPA tests are run. So they don't apply that well. They are rough estimates. Even though the tests are repeatedable, they have limited applicability to real life. For example, the EPA tests are done with air conditioners off. Try that in Washington DC, and the eggs in your grocery basket will hard boiled when you get home.

I don't think Mike is lying.

Jeff

Reply to
Jeff
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If GM is so great, why are they on the verge of bankruptcy? and looking at Renault to bail them out?

Depite its claim that it offers more cars that get over 30 mpg on the highway, GM has the worse corporate fuel mileage record of the Big Three plus the Japanese imports.

Great cars from a great company, HA!

Reply to
Anonymous

They are not looking to Renault because they want to, that was forced on them by Kevorian.

Reply to
Edwin Pawlowski

But as I said more buyers choose to buy their vehicles than any import. So the fact remains both GM and Ford still sell more vehicles in the US than any import, and the have more models that get 30 or more MPG, than any import as well. ;)

mike hunt

Reply to
Mike Hunter

"Mike Hunter" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@ptd.net:

arguing the virtues of one brand over another is like the abortion issue. Very, very touchy topic. I just think people oughta buy American cars if they live in America. And not some bullshit American branded car that's actually made in Mexico or Korea. Plus American cars have more character and personality than foreign cars! We are the country that produced the Pontiac GTO Judge, Olds 442, Dodge Challenger, Plymouth Superbee, Dodge Dart GTS, Dodge GTX, Buick Grand National, Pontiac Firebird, The Plymouth HemiCuda, Ford Mustang, Chevy Camaro, '55 Chevy, '49 Ford. CASE CLOSED! Take your boring Toyota Camry's and shove them up your buttocks.

Reply to
grappletech

Mike Hunter: Give it a rest. All I see is you criticizing and otherwise badmouthing others. I had a '93 Pontiac Grand Am for 9 years, 113,000 miles. That damn car gave me nothing but problems. Gone through two water pumps and one alternator, and a gas guage problem that was never fixed by the dealer. And that was the 3300 V6. I did not have all the other associated problems that came with the infamous Quad 4 of the same years. My confidence in Ford and GM is very low. I will probably never buy another "American" car again. And if I did, Ford and GM will be at the bottom of my list. If GM was so great, then why would they need a WRX to badge under SAAB?? Why would they need Toyota to badge under Geo?? Why would Ford need Mazda to badge under their models?

Reply to
Jon Macey

I'm merely pointing out some demonstrable facts. Others are offering opinions, telling others to buy their favorite brand, not me. If asked my opinion I tell others to drive and price all those that suit their needs and then buy the one that best suits their budget. From what I know of the automotive business today ALL manufactures are building good, high quality, long lasting vehicles. The only REAL difference among them is style and price ;)

mike hunt

Reply to
Mike Hunter

The same reason Lexus badges Toyotas as a Lexus, or Acura badges Hondas as Acuras, I guess.

mike hunt

Reply to
Mike Hunter

You used to be correct. What is exciting about an Impala? Malibu? Lacrosse? Ford 500? Concorde? Stratus? Boring. Case closed.

Reply to
Edwin Pawlowski

Agree. That is why I bought a John Deere lawnmower. The Kawasaki engine on it starts on one pull every time.

Reply to
Edwin Pawlowski

FWIW I don't know about Europe, but here in the USA absolutely NOTHING good has ever come out of Renault. Shit cars, with shit engineering and non existent quality control.

Renault Fuego Renault Alliance (Car of the year??? who got paid off on that one) Eagle Premier (a Chrysler product) mostly Renault parts. A complete disaster. Most have self destructed by now.

Renault IMHO has made some of the absolute worst cars in history. At least here in the USA. Maybe they kept all the good cars for Europe?

GM might as well align itself with the engineers who produced the AMC Pacer.

Reply to
John

(...)

My Contour has 131,000 mi on it and is going strong. No major repairs. The biggest repairs were two wheel bearings and an axel in 9 years. Pretty good. Around $1000 maintenance and repairs total.

Why does Mazda resell Fords? Because Mazda can't make an SUV as good as the Escape or a truck as good as the Ranger on its own.

Jeff

Reply to
Jeff

GM is not on the verge of bancruptcy. And they are not looking at Renault to bail them out. One member of the board of trustees thinks it makes sense. That's all.

Who determines whether the cars with the high mileage ratings are bought? The buyers.

I don't like GM designs, except the Saturn Vue. But, overall their cars and trucks are ok. Their financial problems are partly the result of stupid contracts that cost GM big when it comes to pensions and health care.

There are other problems, like not having the most appealing cars and marketing issues.

Jeff

Reply to
Jeff

(...)

Plus American cars

Don't forget the VW bugs, VW GTIs, BMW 2002, Peugeot 504, Mazdia Miata, BMW Mini Cooper, VW Bus, VW Thing, Porshes and MG. There are plenty of foreign cars with character, too.

Case is not closed!

Jeff

Reply to
Jeff

I don't think the Escape is that good. Knew someone who had one and had many problems with it. My brother had an Explorer and had many problems with it. Now he has a Toyota 4runner. Much better truck in my opinion.

Reply to
Jon Macey

Lexus IS a Toyota in more elegant refined packaging, made by the same company. Acura IS a Honda in more elegant refined packaging, made by the same company. A WRX IS NOT a SAAB by any means, and same for the others I mentioned.

If you are going to preach all your opinions on everyone then you should get your facts straight my friend.

Mike Hunter wrote:

Reply to
Jon Macey

Agreed. The current American designs are uninspiring. The new 2007 Camry is pretty cool.

Reply to
Jon Macey

(...)

You're going to find people who have had the opposite experience with Japanese cars that, let's just say didn't work out, and American vehicles that did. Mike Huntrer talked about a guy who had problems with a Toyota-made vehicle and ended up with a Mercury. My father's company bought a Toyota SR5 truck in the 70s. Ran great, except it rusted out. The Checy S-10 they bought a few years later is still going (although they had to put a new bed on it a few years ago because of rust).

Because of the varied needs of people (e.g., people with kids have very different need that single college kids or retirees), and different tastes and experience, people look for different things in cars. And people will continue to buy differeent types of cars, just like people buy different things at reastaurants.

You're never going to get one car maker to satisfy the needs and wants of everyone.

Reply to
Jeff

Actually, only the engine was from Renault. It was an engine that was jointly developed by Peugeot, Renault and Volvo. AMC had a contract with Renault to buy so many of the engines a year for a particualr length of time. It was not a bad car. The interior looked cheap. It had a weird engine layout (FWD, with the engine mounted so that the crankshaft went from the front to the back). It got fairly good reviews. Unfortuantely, with AMC Jeep was bought out by Chrysler, Chrysler was only interested in the Jeeps. So they honored the contract with Renault, sold the Eagle Premier as along as they had too, and closed down the Eagle brand. THe car was made in Canada.

Let's see: Nissan and Renault have been turned around and are making a profit. It is not engineering that GM lacks (ok, we can argue about that), but management skills.

Jeff

Reply to
Jeff

I think the Fursion, Escape, Explorer Sport and Mustang, the Dodge VIpe and Charger (did you see the police version), Nitro, Durango and Dokota, Chrysler 300 and PT Convertable, , Pontiac Vibe, Chevy Avalanche and Saturn Vue and Hummers are all pretty cool.

It depends on what you like.

Jeff

Reply to
Jeff

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