novice question on getting a stuck vehicle out

If I have to, I use

Jeff!!!!!

You are advocating the biggest no no ever to do here bud!

Folks, NEVER add a metal chain or any other piece of metal to a looped tow strap!

The last person we heard of doing this is now pushing up daisies, may he RIP.

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

'The chain' is a deadly weapon that Jeff has no business advocating adding to the end of a strap!

This is the BIGGEST NO NO you can do!!!!!

You 'never' add a chain or any metal parts to a looped tow strap!

NEVER!

We just had this discussion here a while ago when the last guy got killed by a flying metal piece hooked to a strap.

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Tomes wrote:

Well...... That is somewhat of a problem.......

There really 'is' no safe place to hook a snatch strap to a 'stock' car or a Jeep for that matter unless tow hooks have been properly mounted.

On cars, there are no bumpers anymore, no frame, no solid hook points. You can wrap it around a trailing arm for a rear wheel or a control arm in the front, but if you have to pull too hard, damage will occur, same for a rear axle or shackle or trailer hitch even.

To be honest, pulling cars is best left to tow trucks with their liability insurance.

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Nathan Otis wrote:

Speaking of Tow hooks, I've got a set in the front, but what with the new job and the crappy ploughed road we have to drive up (not city maintained -- easement) it gets icy and a couple people have ended up in the ditch; and me being the only truck there....well, the fronts are nice, but I want rears too. I've got the stock bumper with a bolt on hitch (not part of the bumper). I went to JustJeeps in Toronto and was trying to find a pair of those sideways hooks for mounting in the rear! The guy happened to have one, but 2 is nice! Anyhow, he called the supplier and they're no longer an OEM product. Guess DC is letting the aftermarket do its thing!

The person with the most knowledge and experience should attach the strap. As I was leaving an offroad trail one day a few years back, a stock Jeep had gotten himself pretty stuck. When I backed up to hook up to him, I realized he had no tow-hooks. Going against my better judgement (which said ...if this guy goes mudding with no hooks ...he's an idiot) I asked him where he wanted me to hook up to. He looks under his Jeep and says "just go around this thing." The thing he pointed at was his shackle for his leaf springs. Needless to say, people with the least knowledge should not be given this choice ...not just for damage and liability purposes, but also for safety. I, for one, didn't feel like having a shackle snap off during a pull and go flying through the air.

With that said, all vehicles are obviously very different. In general, if you can get far enough underneath (especially the rear), there is almost always a frame member or crossmember that is somewhat accessible. I will take my strap and wrap it around this member (ensure that it won't slide against another component that will end up taking the force), and loop the strap through itself. Then, slowly loosen the slack and double-check to make sure the strap hasn't moved. I tend to give a few little tugs to get the strap to really clamp down on itself and the frame member. I have never encountered any problems doing this with either cars or trucks.

However, as someone mentioned, be very careful of excess strap. If you run over it, you will end up causing more problems than you really want to deal with. The physics of that possible situation are scary.

If you are pulling cars out of snow banks with a Libby, 4HI should be OK more often than not. But, since one is starting from a standing stop, I suppose the effort to get into 4LO is about the same.

The trouble with using a Libby for recovery operations is that it is probably too light, and won't pull very well anyway. If it can accomplish the recovery operation at all, it can probably do it in HI. I am not meaning to go around dissing Libbys, it's just a matter of physics that the Libby is light, short, and narrow, and pulling stuff is going to be more a mattter of weight and traction than power.

I have a short length of chain that can accomodate 5000 pound loads. It is probably about 6 ft long. The only use for it is to wrap around the frame so the sharp edges of the undercarriage are away from my strap. I use a double loop on the chain to maximize the capacity, and I use a couple of D-rings to couple the ends together.

Using a chain is problematic because if it should break then it can go flying. The way I tie it, it would have to not only break but unravel itself from the frame of the object vehicle before it could go anywhere, so all things considered, it should be OK. It also matters that the kinds of places where it is used are not the kinds of places where the stress will break the chain. The only reason I get it out is if I fear sharp-edge issues that can damage my strap. And, I NEVER yank the loads. I always pull the strap up tight, then start the pull of the load. If my 11.50's can't get a bite, then I need another Jeep to help anyway, and yanking stuff under those conditions strikes me as dangerous.

I don't add it to the strap. I wrap it to the frame to separate the strap from any sharp edges. If there are no sharp edges, then I don't use it.

Basically it only do this for the idiots from the city that drive the Maximas up the wash and get stuck in the sand.

Right.

The chain is merely used as a auxiliary anchor point if the logical anchor points can damage the strap. The point here is that I am not making the strap longer, I am making the anchor point safer. And, we are talking about pulling a car from a snow bank, not getting a stuck Jeep out of a ravine.

That's why the chain is connected to the frame by at least two loops. Please remember the goal here is to pull a car out of a snow bank, not lift a Jeep up a cliff.

You are not picturing it right Mike.

What is going on here is, 1.) we are talking about getting a car that is stuck in the snow on the side of the road, and 2.) it can have sharp edges on the under carriage that can damage a strap. I use a short length of chain to go around the frame at least twice to create a "soft" anchor point that will not harm the strap. That is all. The only goal is to create an anchor point that will prevent damage to the strap.

I know 'you' have a half a clue how to use them Jeff, it's just the general public might get the idea it's ok to combine a chain and a strap and even doing it carefully can lead to deadly consequences if a link pops.

It will be the hook link too you know.

Using a chain and loose hook is a 'last resort' and if you have to go that far, you should 'not' be towing the fool out of the ditch, a tow truck should.

My $0.02,

Mike

Jeff Strickland wrote:

I am picturing a loose hook on the end of a strap going ballistic is all....

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

I guess I need to clarify what I said, or what you guys might think I said.

Using a chain as a recovery device is dangerous. Very dangerous. Using a strap with a hook on the ends is also dangerous. Very dangerous.

Having said that, there is a time and a way that a chain is a useful tool, indeed can be required if one is attempting recovery of a passenger that is stuck in snow or sand. I can't think of a long list of good times, in fact I can think of only one. That is where there is a very real danger of destroying the tow strap is it is attached directly to the object vehicle.

If I think my strap is going to be damaged, and I can't simply attach it elsewhere to avoid the damage, then I have a short lenght of about 4 ft of chain that I double wrap around a suitable part of the frame, and through the eyelet on my strap. This will get my strap away from the sharp edge so that the car can be recovered from the snow bank or sand trap.

I would NEVER use a chain to recover a Jeep that was stuck while wheeling. As Mike Romain says, that is a disaster waiting to happen. But the OP was asking how to use a Libby to pull people out of the snow, and there is not likely to be enough stored energy to break anything, at least nothing that I own and would use for recovery.

To address Nathan, I always attach my stuff to the vehicles that I am recovering, IF those vehicles are not Jeepers that are known to me to be intelligent and safety conscious. When I am pulling some guy back to the pavement because he took his Maxima into a dry creek bed, I am pretty certain he has no clue where to attach a recovery device of any kind. Like another poster suggested, tongue in cheek of course, have them close the sun roof on the strap, and hang on to it while you pull, and they would probably do it.

I want to be on record along side Mike R., using a chain is dangerous for recoveries in offroading situations. But, one can safely use a chain to get a car from the sand or snow, and save damaging a strap.

If you look, you will find holes the frame behind the rear tires that are used to attach hooks on the back or your TJ.

maintained --

Thanks for clarifying Jeff.

A 4' 'tree saver' strap comes to my mind for that purpose. If the person wants the tow, he can cover the cost of a new one of those if it gets damaged.

I 'have' damaged straps on recoveries. It happens. I have a winch now but still carry the strap.

Mike

Jeff Strickland wrote:

I understand. That is a scary picture to be sure, but that is not what I am suggesting here.

Exactly. I hadn't thought of a tree-saver, but that is exactly how I am using the chain. Also, don't forget, I am pulling a passenger car out of a snow bank, not dragging an offroader out of a ravine.

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