Re: Tomb Raider Rubicon

elitist bullshit.

how does the owner affect the merit of the vehicle?

i hope you dont consider jp magazine "lower the wj for better highway performance"...."the liberty lives up to the jeep name" to be an authoritative source of information concerning jeeps?!?!?!?

"not bad"? what do you call a stock SE? a stock sport? a stock sahara?

assuming equal drivers, stock for stock, what jeep is more capable? what stock jeep has ever even been EQUALLY capable? im not at all trying to sound elitist.....to the contrary i despise elitist crap like i sense from your post. jeep and let jeep.

"real" off roaders cant afford a $30,000 vehicle?

a/c is a "stupid" option?

ok, we agree there. there are places ive avoided simply because im paying $500 a month for my rubi. that said, i avoided those same places in my '00 sahara. i see videos of people rolling new tjs at moab and instead of thinking "cool!" i cant help but think "no wonder my goddamn jeep insurance is so high!"

i dont think i know you, and i really hope that i have misread your intentions. im just goddamn tired of hearing non-rubicon owners treating me like i dont have the merit badge because i didnt build my own jeep (although i built my other one).

btw, im currently download it (although its only trickling in, will take several days to get it im sure). is it worth watching? does she show her abs? if so im in trouble. :-)

being a newbie to the group (at least, ive never seen him before) i figured he might just be trying to fit in with what he thought was the feeling of the group. im waiting until i see a little more (hopefully a direct response to my questions) before i form any impressions. in the past some of my statements concerning the liberty have been taken the wrong way and maybe i seemed elitist. although i clarified my "problem" was not with the liberty itself, sometimes it just didnt come out right. maybe thats what happened here, maybe not. i hate to dismiss anyone as a troll, and only do when its blatently obvious.

If Earle lives in Silverton he does not live in an upscale neighborhood (yet), but he certainly lives in God's country. Hummer H2's are rarely seen there, the roads are steep & narrow, with dirt & rock. (Wouldn't want to mess up that paint.) Plus it's a long way down if you FU and go off the edge.

The rich have yet to decide that Silverton is a fashionable place to be. When they do they will designate it the next jewel of a mountain town to be ruined like Aspen & Telluride. However, not to worry, the Silverton natives are tough enough to handle matters themselves. When the first batch of rich sissies arrives from California to buy up the town's treasures the Silvertonians will amass on Green St with torches blazing, like the villagers in a Frankenstein movie, and will chase the bastards out of town, over Ophir Pass and all the way to Telluride where they belong.

There the dispossessed rich will gather to share the experience of their harrowing escape from the Silverton ruffians, and perhaps they'll write it all down for publication in a trendy Californian magazine. Then they'll sip well respected Cabernets at only the most appropriate of places in Telluride. Meanwhile, the Silvertonians will have another beer at the Miners Tavern, and that's as it should be.

since you have not responded directly to my post, id like to add something that i should have included in my first response to you. concerning air conditioning being a "stupid" option.....

it would be one thing if my rubicon was a dedicated trail rig. fact is, my family rides in it 90% as often as i do. i cant ride around topless all the time with a 2 year old just to somehow prove that im "hardcore"...she just cant tolerate _that_ much of it. im not going to take my wife to semi-formal events with either beads of sweat or wind blown hair just to somehow prove that im "hardcore". if your jeep is a "trailered to the trail" jeep then maybe a/c would be a "stupid" option but for a daily driver jeep in the real world, a/c is just plain necessary in most parts of the country.

OTOH, selling the Rubi to little old ladies just means I have to wait

2-4 years for them to come > Frankly, there's getting to be a school of thought among veteran Jeepers

There's a good shot of her at the beginning .. but it has a more girly feel than the first one - 'here's the riding outfit, here's the scuba outfit, here's the chinese outfit etc'. I thought the movie was a bit long - but its an Indiana Jones type movie so its still watchable even if you know its getting a bit silly.

They have a funny military Chinese truck in it, that got the role I thought the Rubicon would have got.. Guess DC didnt pay enough for product placement ! You'll see what I mean when you watch it - the Rubicon gets so little airtime that a non Jeep lover won't even register it.

Dave Milne Scotland '99 TJ Sahara

Dave Milne, Scotland '99 TJ Sahara

Very good, Earl !

Tom

Ah, but one can come to the wrong assumptions in haste, can't one? I presently own three Jeeps and an MB E430 Sport. Price is not the issue, I can write check for one this morning, thank you.

My point here, my overly sensitive Jeeping friends, is that the thing was priced unreasonably high given its content, then, due to its restricted production volume, the dealers did their usual opportunistic optioning and price gouging, luring many of those who bought them out of the "don't get it dirty it's just a hip car for cruising" crowd.

Those of us who've spent a bundle to build our Jeeps just chuckle. Perhaps as they get out on the used market more will get into the hands of true Jeep enthusiasts, right now the owner base seems to be more attuned the quality of the CD players than the performance of the 4.1 xfer case or the lockers.

There was absolutely no justification for the price premium Chrysler put on the thing. The content's combined incremental build cost premium to Chrysler can't be much more than $1000 over a D44 Sport. (They could have simply made the axles, lockers and xfer case a check-off option.) Folks that ordered them from larger metro-area dealerships complain about paying over-sticker premiums and having to take them with silly options they didn't order, want or need (yes, power mirrors ARE an option on the Rubicon), or finding out once they arrived that the dealer had peppered the things with glass tint, mud guards, stone shields, etc. Some dealers then told the buyer who ordered them to "take it or leave it". Typical car dealer BS. Our local dealer was merciful and sold them at sticker.

Sorry if I offended any enthusiast Rubicon owners out there, was not my intent and I should have been more specific. It's a great product, just riles many of us who loathe the way manufacturers and dealers take advantage of consumers.

...but, Earle DOES live in God's country and we're heading that way this AM!

I can't figure out why air conditioning is a "stupid option."

I would guess that over 90% of all TJ's sold have air conditioning. Does that mean that over 90% of TJs "simply SUCK?"

Air conditioning is pretty nice on those 90+ degree days, with extremely high humidity. Also helps the defrost work much better on those rainy days, even when the temperature is not that high.

Tom

Sorry, I've been a contributor to this and several other forums for years.

Heh, like George I could go down to Montrose and buy that new Patriot Rubicon on the lot with cash today, and pay someone to buff off all those stupid flag decals this afternoon, but I don't need one. I don't even need to build one, because the stock YJ that I have is sufficient for my uses, thank you. I learned to drive off road in places where "rich sissies" from California and Texas (like George) would be afraid to walk. I was thinking of getting a rear Trash-Lock, but I am not yet convinced I need it.

If I were a young guy with a family to raise however, there is no way in hell I would be paying $500 a month for a toy like the Rubicon for myself.

George if you are actually coming to Silverton this AM please spend some money. My friends with the gift shops and restaurants really love "rich sissies" like you, honest!

Earle

You have people from Silverton all wrong George. You and your "rich sissy" buddies from Aspen, Telluride, Texas, California or wherever can buy all the land and homes up here you want, but you're going to pay through the nose for it now. If enough of you move up here I'll even sell my place to one of you and move to Craig, Nebraska, or maybe Portugal.

Earle

This doesn't mean a hell of a lot to me. There are people who post all the time who are idiots, and some people who hardly ever post but when they finally have something to say it is worth reading. You haven't made it into either category yet, but keep trying. ;o)

Earle

i guess it must be our fault.

i dont think so. sure, id love it if it was $5000.

go buy a new sport with the d44 rear option. call up warn and get a rear disk conversion (yes, the rear disks DO make one hell of a difference and is an integral function of the rubicon). then call up currie and order a d44 front (if you want to be an elitist ass, just get the center section if that proves some point). when youre done, call up arb and get lockers front and rear (sorry, thats the closest comparable product like it or not). afterwards, get an atlas 2 (dont give me any shit about chain vs. gear, its the closest thing comparable) and get some form of rocker protection. when youre done with that, get a 1" suspension lift on it, better shocks, and some 31" mtrs (i really hope you dont think think the gsa is adequate off road). when youre done, total it all up. guess what?

you just paid for a new escalade! :-)

and none of that makes the rubicon a piece of shit as your original message suggested.

......and those of us who are true jeepers are to concerned with what we're doing to worry about how somebody else is doing it or judge them for it. jeep and let jeep!

go buy a new sport with the d44 rear option. call up warn and get a rear disk conversion (yes, the rear disks DO make one hell of a difference and is an integral function of the rubicon). then call up currie and order a d44 front (if you want to be an elitist ass, just get the center section if that proves some point). when youre done, call up arb and get lockers front and rear (sorry, thats the closest comparable product like it or not). afterwards, get an atlas 2 (dont give me any shit about chain vs. gear, its the closest thing comparable) and get some form of rocker protection. when youre done with that, get a 1" suspension lift on it, better shocks, and some 31" mtrs (i really hope you dont think think the gsa is adequate off road). when youre done, total it all up. guess what?

you just paid for a new escalade! :-)

bullshit. go buy a new sport with the d44 rear option. call up warn and get a rear disk conversion (yes, the rear disks DO make one hell of a difference and is an integral function of the rubicon). then call up currie and order a d44 front (if you want to be an elitist ass, just get the center section if that proves some point). when youre done, call up arb and get lockers front and rear (sorry, thats the closest comparable product like it or not). afterwards, get an atlas 2 (dont give me any shit about chain vs. gear, its the closest thing comparable) and get some form of rocker protection. when youre done with that, get a 1" suspension lift on it, better shocks, and some 31" mtrs (i really hope you dont think think the gsa is adequate off road). when youre done, total it all up. guess what?

you just paid for a new escalade! :-)

i bought mine below sticker (after rebate) and the dealer still gave me $2000 more than i was trying to sell my trade in for.

fine. hi gerald, im nathan.

manufacturers and dealers take advantage of consumers.

i think everybody feels manufacturers and dealers stick it to us. had that been your initial statement (instead of veteran jeepers say its a piece of shit) i think you would have seen a very different outcome.