Will, you are being sarcastic, right? Mayor Nagin & his emergency chief, Ebbert, didn't even attempt to implement the evacuation plan. Did you see all those buses sitting flooded? They were supposed to take people out of the city, according to the city's official plan.
BCite?
In a stark reminder of how drastically Hurricane Katrina has affected the lives of New Orleanians, Mayor Ray Nagin has purchased a home in Dallas and enrolled his young daughter in school there.
Nagin, who spoke with The Times-Picayune by telephone from Dallas, where he has been since Wednesday, said he plans to return to New Orleans on Saturday. He said he will remain in the Crescent City while his family lives for the next six months in Dallas, making occasional visits to his family when possible.
It's not clear where Nagin will be living: His home on Bayou St. John suffered massive flooding, the mayor said, although he has not inspected it.
Nagin: Mistakes were made at all levels
His biggest frustration was slow pace of relief
By Gordon Russell Staff writer
In a stark reminder of how drastically Hurricane Katrina has affected the lives of New Orleanians, Mayor Ray Nagin has purchased a home in Dallas and enrolled his young daughter in school there.
Nagin, who spoke with The Times-Picayune by telephone from Dallas, where he has been since Wednesday, said he plans to return to New Orleans on Saturday. He said he will remain in the Crescent City while his family lives for the next six months in Dallas, making occasional visits to his family when possible.
It's not clear where Nagin will be living: His home on Bayou St. John suffered massive flooding, the mayor said, although he has not inspected it.
In a brief but wide-ranging interview, the mayor reflected on the tragedies of the past two weeks. Acknowledging that he may have made some mistakes, he said he hopes others in positions of authority - including President Bush and Gov. Kathleen Blanco -- are scrutinized as closely as he and his staff have been.
"I'm not pointing any fingers at anyone," Nagin said. "But I was in the fire. I was down there. Where were they? I'm confident the truth is going to come out. But I want everybody's record analyzed just as hard as mine.
"Listen, this was unprecedented. Nothing has ever happened like this. For people to sit back and say, 'You should have done this, you should have done that' it's Monday morning quarterbacking. They can shoot if they want, but I was there, and I will have the facts."
Nagin's biggest frustration, and his biggest source of puzzlement, is the slow pace of the relief efforts. He said state and federal officials made repeated promises that weren't kept.
"This is ridiculous," he said. "I mean, this is America. How can we have a state with an $18 billion budget and a federal government with an I-don't-know-how-many trillion dollar budget, and they can't get a few thousand people onto buses? I don't get that.
"All I saw was a huge two-step, if you will, between the federal government and the state as far as who had the final authority. Promises made that weren't really kept. It was frustrating. We'd analyze things, double-check them, and then, later in the afternoon, we'd find out that someone was changing the plan, moving resources around."
Where were the resources?
Some officials at the state and federal level have suggested that part of the reason for the slow response was a lack of awareness about the level of devastation the city had suffered. They have faulted city officials for not sending out a stronger SOS.
While Nagin has said he didn't think the slow response was related to the demographic of the overwhelmingly poor, African-American residents that needed rescuing, his thinking has evolved.
"Definitely class and, the more I think about it, definitely race played into this," he said. "How do you treat people that just want to walk across the bridge and get out, and they're turned away, because you can't come to a certain parish?
How do resources get stacked up outside the city of New Orleans and they don't make their way in? How do you not bring one piece of ice?
"If it's race, fine, let's call a spade a spade, a diamond a diamond. We can never let this happen again. Even if you hate black people and you are in a leadership position, this did not help anybody."
As hearings on the Katrina response start to crank up in Washington, Nagin said, those questions, among others, need to be asked.
"I think the government ought to be asking itself, 'What happened to the resources?'
"Why were people promised resources and they didn't show up? Where were the military resources? Where was the National Guard? Why were we left with a city on the verge of collapse, fighting for the soul of the city, with 200 National Guardsmen and 1,200 police?
"It was a serious breakdown," the mayor continued. "Make sure that whether it's Ray Nagin or the governor or the president, we take a serious look at this and make the changes that need to be made. I'm afraid some of this was a tug-of-war about who gets to spend the money at the end of the day. And I don't appreciate that.
"I saw too many people die, and a lot of people didn't see any of that. They had a press conference and left. I'm looking up, fighting this incredible battle, and they're doing press conferences and lying to the people. They're telling them 40,000 troops are in New Orleans. It was all bull."
Communications shut down
"Analyze my ass, analyze everyone's ass, man. Let's put the facts on the table and talk turkey. Why was there a breakdown at the federal and state level only in Louisiana? This didn't happen in Mississippi. That's the question. That's the question of the day."
Nagin said the city's communications essentially shut down, but said that state and federal officials were likewise at a loss. Within a few days, city officials, including Chief Technology Officer Greg Meffert aided by a crew from Unisys and other outside volunteers, were able to patch together a rough network.
"All communications broke down," Nagin said. "I got cell phones from as high up as the White House that didn't work. My Blackberry pin-to-pin was the only thing that worked. I saw the military struggle with this, too. No one had communications worth a damn."
Even if communications were challenging, Nagin noted that FEMA officials were up in helicopters inspecting the damage from the storm within about 24 hours after it passed. So the message should have been clear, he said: Send in the cavalry.
"I think they realized the magnitude of what was happening," he said.
The best-laid plans
Federal officials have faulted Nagin's administration for not marshaling its Regional Transit Authority buses and those of the School Board to start ferrying the tens of thousands of evacuees stranded at the Superdome and the Convention Center out of town.
Nagin said perhaps some of the criticism is fair. But he said there were various logistical hurdles that made it hard to use that equipment, and the buses would have hardly created a dent in the size of the crowds anyway.
"It's up for analysis," he said. "But we didn't have enough buses. I don't control the school buses, and the RTA buses as far as I know were positioned high and dry. But 80 percent of the city was not high and dry. Where would we have staged them? And who was going to drive them even if we commandeered them? If I'd have marshaled 50 RTA buses, and a few school buses, it still wouldn't have been nearly enough. We didn't get food, water and ice in this place, and that's way above the local level.
"Our plan was always to use the buses to evacuate to the Dome as a shelter of last resort, and from there, rely on state and federal resources."
Those resources took way too long to arrive, Nagin said - in fact, much of the help didn't arrive until after the mass evacuations from the Dome and the Convention Center had occurred. As a result, people suffered and died needlessly, a truth that has been weighing heavily on his mind.
"I saw stuff that I never thought I would see in my lifetime," he said. "People wanting to die. People trying to give me babies and things. It was a helpless, helpless feeling.
"There was a lady waiting in line for bus who had a miscarriage. She was cleaning herself off so she wouldn't lose her place in line. There were old people saying, 'Just let me lie down and die.' It's bulls---, absolutely bulls---. It's unbelievable that this would happen in America."
Answering criticism
While a number of people in the sea of refugees that packed the Dome and Convention Center complained that Nagin had not come to address them, Nagin said he did visit both facilities and speak with people.
"I went there," he said. "I went through the crowds and talked to people, and they were not happy. They were panicked. After the shootings and the looting got out of control, I did not go back in there. My security people advised me not to go back" after Wednesday, he said.
By Thursday, crowds had gotten increasingly restless. At one point, a crowd surged dangerously around Police Superintendent Eddie Compass, and a knot of police officers had to help him to safety.
Part of the discomfort in the Dome and Convention Center was due to the lack of toilet facilities after the city's water system went down late Wednesday. The city's hurricane plan calls for portable toilets at shelters, but none ever arrived. Nagin said his understanding was that the National Guard was in charge of providing them.
Also, he added, "Our plan never assumed people being in the Dome more than two or three days."
Nagin said he saw a few bright spots amid the rubble of the city. He said the New Orleans Police Department - at least, the majority of it, given that there were a number of desertions - should be hailed for fighting an almost impossible fight, handling search-and-rescue missions while trying to keep an increasingly lawless city in check.
"They were absolutely heroic," he said. "The stuff they were dealing with, man. They spent the first two or three days pulling people out of the water. When the looting started to get to the point that it was a real concern, they had to get involved in serious firefights. I mean, we had radio chatter where police were pinned down in firefights and ran out of ammunition. That's never happened."
'A better city'
Nagin also expressed cautious optimism about the city's future.
"I think we'll be a better city," he said. "I think we're going to see an unprecedented construction boom, and some better-paying jobs. Small businesses will start thriving, and I think the tourist industry will bounce back stronger than ever."
Many people who were stranded for days at the Dome and Convention Center told reporters they were never coming back to their devastated city. The mayor acknowledged that some of them probably meant it, including some of the displaced New Orleanians he's met since arriving in Dallas.
"I think some people will probably not come back," he said. "You know, Texas is treating people very well, probably much better than we treated people.
"But I think once people start to see the rebuilding, and that the culture of the city will not be materially affected, they'll be back."
How things progress will depend largely on the level of federal aid, the mayor said. And it's still unclear whether entire neighborhoods will have to be razed - and whether some areas should be abandoned because of their propensity to flood.
"The longer those neighborhoods stay under water, the harder it's going to be to rebuild them," he said.
Meanwhile, there are going to have to be serious conversations about changes to the housing codes and improvements to the levee system, whose inadequacies were laid bare by Katrina.
"I've been talking to some people in Texas, and I think maybe some better designs for housing that can handle some of this," Nagin said. "And the levee system is designed only to withstand a Category 3 storm. Obviously, we have to do better than that."
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Got it.
I should hope when the Big One hits San Diego, you will love your family enough to set up a temporary home elsewhere until your houses and schools can be rebuilt.
And I subscribe to:
Things I have learned from watching the news about Hurricane Katrina on TV
Have you ever been through one of these mass evacuation goatropes? I mean down and dirty, get-the-hell-outta-Dodge melees. They are like a battle and (to quote one old General) the first casualty of any war is the battle plan. To be successful, you have to have two things above all: reliable communications and a focus point. Next in line is a willing population - and I also know enough holdouts to say that the presence of this element is highly questionable even with the first two iniatially in place. Yes, the histrionics started a bit late - but I personally know too many people down there that were comfortable in Memphis or Tyler or some other place well before the shouting started because they made rational decisions early (in one case, a 70 year old lady caring for her 88 year old mother - no car, living the the ninth ward). If nothing else, Nagin stood there and made himself a target while trying to get the last stragglers to leave and he did get a lot of them to at least compromise and seek local shelter. His use of staff and planning is another topic, but without his hammering there would have been a lot more bodies floating around Tuesday morning.
We will probably never see it, but I suspect that a decent after-acti> >
Good for you, assuming the phones work. Think you'll be rebuilt in a week?
You must have been listening to Rush complaining about CNN's coverage. Only thing is, it doens't sound like either of you actually watched it.
There is enough blame to go around, even at the federal level. Federal response could have been immediate. They didn't need anyone to ask them for help. Have you ever read the National Response Plan that was accepted and implemented in December,2004? You can find it at the Department of Homeland Security website. Personally, I could care what they did or didn't do on the local level before Katrina came ashore. After it came ashore there were people that needed help, immediate help. Can you imagine if EMTs were to respond to an accident and were more concerned about who caused it and who was driving than saving the lives of the injured? It's embarrassing. "Of the people, by the people, for the people" has turned into "us against them". Both sides are equally to blame for this. Most of us wouldn't tolerate this kind of behavior from our children.
On page 43 of the plan is a section titled "Proactive Federal Response to Catastrophic Events".
The NRP establishes policies, procedures, and mechanisms for proactive Federal response to catastrophic events. A catastrophic event is any natural or manmade incident, including terrorism, that results in extraordinary levels of mass casualties, damage, or disruption severely affecting the population, infrastructure, environment, economy, national morale, and/or government functions. A catastrophic event could result in sustained national impacts over a prolonged period of time; almost immediately exceeds resources normally available to State, local, tribal, and private-sector authorities in the impacted area; and significantly interrupts governmental operations and emergency services to such an extent that national security could be threatened. All catastrophic events are Incidents of National Significance.
Implementation of Proactive Federal Response Protocols
Protocols for proactive Federal response are most likely to be implemented for catastrophic events involving chemical, biological, radiological, nuclear, or high-yield explosive weapons of mass destruction, or large magnitude earthquakes or other natural or technological disasters in or near heavily populated areas.
Guiding Principles for Proactive Federal Response Guiding principles for proactive Federal response include the following: ¡ The primary mission is to save lives; protect critical infrastructure, property, and the environment; contain the event; and preserve national security. ¡ Standard procedures regarding requests for assistance may be expedited or, under extreme circumstances, suspended in the immediate aftermath of an event of catastrophic magnitude. ¡ Identified Federal response resources will deploy and begin necessary operations as required to commence life-safety activities. ¡ Notification and full coordination with States will occur, but the coordination process must not delay or impede the rapid deployment and use of critical resources. States are urged to notify and coordinate with local governments regarding a proactive Federal response. ¡ State and local governments are encouraged to conduct collaborative planning with the Federal Government as a part of gsteady-stateh preparedness for catastrophic incidents.
Implementation Mechanisms for Proactive Federal Response to Catastrophic Events The NRP Catastrophic Incident Supplement (described in the Catastrophic Incident Annex) addresses resource and procedural implications of catastrophic events to ensure the rapid and efficient delivery of resources and assets, including special teams, equipment, and supplies that provide critical lifesaving support and incident containment capabilities. These assets may be so specialized or costly that they are either not available or are in insufficient quantities in most localities.
The procedures outlined in the NRP Catastrophic Incident Supplement are based on the following: ¡ The pre-identification of Federal assets and capabilities; ¡ The strategic location of pre-identified assets for rapid deployment; and ¡ The use of pre-scripted mission assignments for Stafford Act declarations, or individual agency authority and funding, to expedite deployment upon notification by DHS (in accordance with procedures established in the NRP Catastrophic Incident Supplement) of a potential catastrophic event.
Agencies responsible for these assets will keep DHS apprised, through the HSOC, of their ongoing status and location until the JFO is established. Upon arrival at the scene, Federal assets will coordinate with the Unified Command, the SFLEO, and the JFO (or its forward elements) when established. Demobilization processes, including full coordination with the JFO Coordination Group, are initiated either when the mission is completed or when it is determined the magnitude of the event does not warrant continued use of the asset.
"Brian" wrote in message news:b snipped-for-privacy@news.verizon.net...
I get a couple less mpg with propane than I do with petrol.
True, however the tanks have a pressure loss switch on them that shuts off the supply if too much comes out too quickly. By the time it hits the carb, it isn't pressurized. Or put it like this, I'll bet it is a damn sight safer than petrol where petrol vapour can ignite from 20' away. Darwin-wise, petrol isn't clever. Remember the Jaguar XJ6s, the Crown Victorias that burnt the occupants to a crisp on a rear ender ? We have all got used to sitting on tanks (in your Willy's case literally) of the burny stuff.
Dave Milne, Scotland '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
The question you should ask is, if LPG is so dangerous, where are all the crispy critter LPG occupants and incinerated or smashed vehicles?? There are none. Bill keeps pointing out an incident that does not and apparently has never happened in the whole of history.
He can not cite one single incident of LPG stuck throttle. Not anywhere ever. And if it did happen it would very likely not cause a crash unless the driver was drunk or incompetent or Alzheimer's-addled.
That's not quite how it works. It comes out of the tank, and into a mixer. That's the bit that is heated by water, and if it is going to freeze, that's where it freezes. Then it comes out of the mixer at atmospheric pressure and is sucked into the carb. Its not trying to heat 600 cfm of sub zero propane as most of the 600cfm is air. As I said before, when it is near freezing outside, you start on petrol. I guess if you live where it gets really cold, you don't switch over ! However, in my experience it has never frozen except at the mixer, whereupon the engine just stopped.
Dave Milne, Scotland '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
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