LPG and V8 running fast on tickover.

Hi all.

Just bought a nice Discovery II V8 which has a quality LPG conversion. The engine purrs along beautifully, but..

.. the only thing is that the engine runs rather fast on tickover (approx 800 rpm). And when I pull away, - if I don't keep the engine revs very high, it dies and almost stalls. This happens whether running on petrol or lpg.

Is it possible that this is a quirk of the tuning necessary for a successful lpg conversion, - or should I have the engine tuned? If so, would I need a (good) lpg specialist to tune it - or can a LR dealer manage it - with a converted vehicle such as this?

TIA.

H.

-- Pontins History E-Mail: snipped-for-privacy@pontinshistory.co.uk Please visit

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Reply to
Howie
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Shouldn't do it, mine doesn't.

No, it's a quirk of a system not set up correctly! If left, it may cause the Motronic engine management system to "lock" if it tries to trim fuelling beyond it's trim limits for too long, I suggest you have it seen to as soon as poss.

From experience, land rover dealers will go to great lengths to blame an lpg installation for any faults that they do not immediately know the answer to! more likely they will open the bonnet, see the lpg system and simply close the bonnet again. What lpg system is it and where are you? Badger.

Reply to
Badger

Badger, You have an air leak at the inlet manifold. Regards, Jerry

Reply to
Cobra1736

No *I* don't, it's not my vehicle! ;-) FWIW, the idle speed control on a disco II (Motronic EMS) ought to be able to pull the idle back down if it were an air leak, although having said that the gasket between the upper and lower halves of the inlet manifold is a one-use only gasket that's fairly expensive and I've seen people re-use them in the past, to their cost. Badger.

Reply to
Badger

Boys, I don not care who's vehicle it is. I tell you this is an air leak, reuse the gasket and try liquid sealant. Jerry

Reply to
Cobra1736

Jerry, you said *I* had an air leak, I don't. You may well be correct with your diagnosis of an air leak though. As for re-using a corro-joint type gasket, you'll be telling me next it's ok to re-use tin head gaskets on V8 engines, it's the same gasket type?! If the gasket is re-used, even with sealant, it will leak in a high percentage of cases. I know this, I've tried re-using one on my own vehicle after I got caught out after hours without a spare one. Whilst advice to help others is greatly appreciated by all, I for one do not think that advice to re-use an item that's intended for single-use by bodging with sealant is welcome. (And it is a bodge, the gasket seals by deformation of the raised sealing rings, once compressed it has lost the sealing ability) Are you the same Jerry who used to frequent uk.rec.models.rail, by any chance? Just that you appear to have a similar attitude in your posts. Badger.

Reply to
Badger

| |From experience, land rover dealers will go to great lengths to blame an lpg |installation for any faults that they do not immediately know the answer to! |more likely they will open the bonnet, see the lpg system and simply close |the bonnet again. |What lpg system is it and where are you? |Badger. | Hi. Thanks for your help here. The system is a Landi system. Fitted by ACC Autogas of Ledbury, Herefordshire.

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Reply to
Howie

|Boys, |I don not care who's vehicle it is. |I tell you this is an air leak, reuse the gasket and try liquid sealant. |Jerry

Hi. I really appreciate that. I hope the fact that I've done 2000 miles in it in the last two weeks hasn't damaged anything!

Having not worked on a V8 before, is this a fairly simple DIY job? (I'm willing to have a go at most things, - and I'm not a bodger).

I think I will go for the 'new gasket' option anyway.

TIA

H.

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Reply to
Howie

"Howie" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com...

Ok, that's not a system I'm familiar with, I tend to fit OMVL systems. To check for inlet air leaks, first get the engine hot then work your way all around the inlet manifold checking every hose joint carefully as you go, tracing the hoses and checking both ends. You can squirt a little wd40 on the joints and listen for a change in engine rpm, as the wd40 is sucked in at a leak the engine will burn it and the revs will rise slightly. If you need to replace the inlet manifold upper-to-lower gasket, remove the throttle and cruise control cables, disconnect and plug the 2 water pipes at the throttle body, use 2 m6 nuts locked together to unscrew the stud securing the metal heater pipe to the drivers side of the inlet manifold, catching the spacer washer that's between the pipe bracket and manifold. Remove 2 8mm bolts securing upper edge of coil packs, undo the 2 8mm lower coil pack bolts (awkward access) by about 2 turns to allow the coil packs to ease rearwards enough to facilitate manifold removal. Now remove 2 central 10mm bolts at front and rear of the inlet manifold, remove 4 10mm bolts on top of the manifold, ease manifold upwards at the front and rear, ease front end towards passenger side slightly and lift forwards off engine. When refitting, be careful not to snag the new gasket, try loosely fitting the manifold back into place a couple of times until you get the feel for it. The gasket is expensive for what it is, about £20-odd and only available from landrover! Re-fitting is, as they say in all the best comics, the reversal of removal! Don't over torque the mounting bolts, they'll strip the threads in the lower half of the manifold. Badger.

Reply to
Badger

On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 12:33:28 -0000, "Badger" wrote:

|> Hi. Thanks for your help here. The system is a Landi system. |> Fitted by ACC Autogas of Ledbury, Herefordshire. |>

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|Ok, that's not a system I'm familiar with, I tend to fit OMVL systems. To |check for inlet air leaks, first get the engine hot then work your way all |around the inlet manifold checking every hose joint carefully as you go, |tracing the hoses and checking both ends. You can squirt a little wd40 on |the joints and listen for a change in engine rpm, as the wd40 is sucked in |at a leak the engine will burn it and the revs will rise slightly. If you |need to replace the inlet manifold upper-to-lower gasket, remove the |throttle and cruise control cables, disconnect and plug the 2 water pipes at |the throttle body, use 2 m6 nuts locked together to unscrew the stud |securing the metal heater pipe to the drivers side of the inlet manifold, |catching the spacer washer that's between the pipe bracket and manifold. |Remove 2 8mm bolts securing upper edge of coil packs, undo the 2 8mm lower |coil pack bolts (awkward access) by about 2 turns to allow the coil packs |to ease rearwards enough to facilitate manifold removal. Now remove 2 |central 10mm bolts at front and rear of the inlet manifold, remove 4 10mm |bolts on top of the manifold, ease manifold upwards at the front and rear, |ease front end towards passenger side slightly and lift forwards off engine. |When refitting, be careful not to snag the new gasket, try loosely fitting |the manifold back into place a couple of times until you get the feel for |it. The gasket is expensive for what it is, about £20-odd and only available |from landrover! |Re-fitting is, as they say in all the best comics, the reversal of removal! |Don't over torque the mounting bolts, they'll strip the threads in the lower |half of the manifold. |Badger.

Thanks very much for your time with this advice Brian. Much appreciated. Prob won't be able to tackle it until next week, but I'll report back here afterwards.

H.

Reply to
Howie

Badger, this is a different Jerry. I drove for 5 years a 4.0 liter Jeep Wrangler on LPG. During that period I got a lot of experience with LPG systems and read several books on the subject. By trade I am a qualified mechanical engineer and I am in the process of restoring a 90" Landover that's is why I follow the newsgroup. Yes I agree that liquid sealant is not an impressive way of solving problems. But lets us face the real problem the tolerances applied on the machined parts are poor to say the least. A land or range rover cannot be compared to for example a Toyota. Rovers leaks jeep, Toyota's, Nissan's, Mercedes leak a lot less.

I already regret writing this and previous emails. Let's close the discussion. Again I apologize, Jerry

Reply to
Cobra1736

|On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 11:24:24 -0000, "Badger" | wrote: | | || ||From experience, land rover dealers will go to great lengths to blame an lpg ||installation for any faults that they do not immediately know the answer to! ||more likely they will open the bonnet, see the lpg system and simply close ||the bonnet again. ||What lpg system is it and where are you? ||Badger. || |Hi. Thanks for your help here. The system is a Landi system. |Fitted by ACC Autogas of Ledbury, Herefordshire. |

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Sorry. I meant to reply to tell you where I am based. I am in Brixham, Devon. TQ5 area.

Anyone know whether there's a LANDI LPG specialist near here?

Ta.

H.

Reply to
Howie

Have a look on the LPGA's installer's list, might be something listed there? Badger.

Reply to
Badger

On or around Wed, 1 Nov 2006 18:49:38 -0000, "Badger" enlightened us thusly:

and if you're lucky, they might be competent...

Reply to
Austin Shackles

Hehehe, indeed they might just. I don't know of any other listings for finding out who deals with what equipment though Austin, hence my suggestion. Your point is correct though. I'm still looking towards becoming an LPGA "approved" installer, but only due to threats to change the MOT test. There is talk (by the LPGA, surprise surprise!) of a change to include presenting an LPGA certificate before the MOT test commences, regardless of whether the vehicle is running on LPG or not. No cert, no test. Now, I've stated to "certain people" that having that approval does not necessarily mean that the installation is any better than one done by a non-member and that the government can't really introduce a change that forces individuals to become a member of a body that has no legal power, only an advisory role, and that any such change would be against all fair trade laws. The reply was that there would indeed need to be some sort of loophole but no-one has really worked out how to administer such. No surprises there then, that the LPGA don't really want to spend any time agreeing on a system that would protect you from having to joint them! That's the impression I have at the moment, at least. Badger

Reply to
Badger

It's already done under the various building regs, CORGI have it almost airtight and hetas, fensa etc are close behind. A similar thing is done by nominet. You don't make anything compulsory just require a certificate for the work and enable the member of a recognised body to issue the certificate themselves. Anyone else has to submit to an inspection by the "authority" who charge a few hundred pounds for their visit.

AJH

Reply to
AJH

In message , Badger writes

Can you be more specific, Badger.

Our local MP is Chair of the Parliamentary committee on Transport and if this is a serious threat I will take it up with her. She has always taken an interest in alternative fuels and I have fairly regular contact on other matters.

Reply to
hugh

Copied over from an email received from Mike Chapman, LPGA.

"As regards future legislation we have been lobbying government for years and at last there is some movement. The DfT have included a clause in the Road Safety Bill currently passing through Parliament which will enable the DfT to bring in a regulation requiring all conversions to be inspected and certificated. A legal requirement and common backstop will be no MOT without certificate."

"The DfT have already discounted training all MOT stations for these inspections on cost benefit grounds and are currently looking at using the skill base of LPGA Approved Installers, albeit those that apply will have to meet / be subject to additional criteria."

And from another email, same source,

"As regards legislation, the intention is to use the LPGA approved installer skill base for VOSA economic reasons but my own belief it is unlikely that that it will be exclusively so. I am sure that VOSA will wish the provide the consumer with an independent alternative for the reasons you state albeit they will probably not wish to see this alternative in great numbers.

As mentioned it is also envisaged that those LPGA Approved Installers which wish to take in the inspection role would be subject to additional monitoring by VOSA and would need to meet their criteria. In this way any there would be better insurance of maintaining standards.

It would not matter which fuel the vehicle was presented on for MOT - if an LPG system was fitted then the MOT on either fuel could not be started with provision of the Conversion Certificate."

Badger.

Reply to
Badger

On or around Fri, 3 Nov 2006 01:02:33 -0000, "Badger" enlightened us thusly:

I ought to take my converted car which was done by an LPGA approved bloke and see if they'll certify it... *I* wouldn't, for at least one reason I know of.

Reply to
Austin Shackles

In message , Badger writes

Thanks, will take this along at next opportunity.

Reply to
hugh

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