LPG and V8 running fast on tickover.

That describes it nicely - yet another example of those with vested interests getting their way with a weak and feeble government.

There isn't a safety issue - it's just another opportunity to fleece another group who will have no way of avoiding it. And, of course, the government will get its cut as VAT on the inspection and certification fee. I don't imagine, either, that would be a one time only certificate on installation or first inspection so even more cause for complaint.

Any such proposal will inevitably lead to arguments as to what constitutes an LPG installation. Which items if not present will be sufficient to render it incompletely/functionally not installed? You can imagine an installation being carried out in stages with an MOT coming along in middle. It would be unjust (not that it usually matters) to deny the MOT if some of the plumbing only had been installed, for example.

On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 21:08:30 +0000, Howie wrote:

|On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 12:33:28 -0000, "Badger" | wrote: | ||> Hi. Thanks for your help here. The system is a Landi system. ||> Fitted by ACC Autogas of Ledbury, Herefordshire. ||>

||>

||Ok, that's not a system I'm familiar with, I tend to fit OMVL systems. To ||check for inlet air leaks, first get the engine hot then work your way all ||around the inlet manifold checking every hose joint carefully as you go, ||tracing the hoses and checking both ends. You can squirt a little wd40 on ||the joints and listen for a change in engine rpm, as the wd40 is sucked in ||at a leak the engine will burn it and the revs will rise slightly. If you ||need to replace the inlet manifold upper-to-lower gasket, remove the ||throttle and cruise control cables, disconnect and plug the 2 water pipes at ||the throttle body, use 2 m6 nuts locked together to unscrew the stud ||securing the metal heater pipe to the drivers side of the inlet manifold, ||catching the spacer washer that's between the pipe bracket and manifold. ||Remove 2 8mm bolts securing upper edge of coil packs, undo the 2 8mm lower ||coil pack bolts (awkward access) by about 2 turns to allow the coil packs ||to ease rearwards enough to facilitate manifold removal. Now remove 2 ||central 10mm bolts at front and rear of the inlet manifold, remove 4 10mm ||bolts on top of the manifold, ease manifold upwards at the front and rear, ||ease front end towards passenger side slightly and lift forwards off engine. ||When refitting, be careful not to snag the new gasket, try loosely fitting ||the manifold back into place a couple of times until you get the feel for ||it. The gasket is expensive for what it is, about £20-odd and only available ||from landrover! ||Re-fitting is, as they say in all the best comics, the reversal of removal! ||Don't over torque the mounting bolts, they'll strip the threads in the lower ||half of the manifold. ||Badger. | |Thanks very much for your time with this advice Brian. Much |appreciated. Prob won't be able to tackle it until next week, but |I'll report back here afterwards. | |H.

OK. And here I am ;-)

At your suggestion, I had a good check around the joints on all pipes leading to/from the inlet manifolds. The only noticable thing that happened was when I squirted some WD40 onto the 2 adjacent joints which are situated at the front of the manifold,

- near side. The pipes seem to be breathers, - one from the coolant header tank and one from the oil -filler. Anyway, I squirted some WD40 onto the inlet-manifold end and the engine dropped revs from its normal 800 to appro 600/650. So, I tightened up those joints and went for a drive to see if it stayed the same. After approx 5 mins, the tickover crept back up to 800-ish again. However, whilst test-driving it and taking much more notice than in normal driving, I noticed that a lot of the problem could be to do with the fact that the engine revs don't drop (retard - I would call it), when you lift you foot off the accelerator. ie; after completing a gear-change, the revs are still high (but decreasing). This makes it very difficult to change up - or down, smoothly.

Perhaps it's a symptom of the same problem?

I discovered that it's impossible to see (never mind, check) the inlet manifold gasket. I suppose it's under there somewhere? Bloody V8s. They are a bit scary aren't they?

H.

-- Pontins History E-Mail: snipped-for-privacy@pontinshistory.co.uk Please visit

Skype ID (instant messaging and video calls): howie10

On or around Sat, 04 Nov 2006 17:20:12 +0000, Howie enlightened us thusly:

lovely engine. I forget which version you've got... but on the hotwire ones the idle-speed compensation thing seems to mean that it takes a while to drop back to proper idle sometimes.

IIRC it's a "feature" that's supposed to help reduce emissions on over-run or summat like that.

Nope, nice simple engine! ;-) Just a thought, it sounds almost as if the throttle cable is adjusted too tight, is there a bit of slack in both the throttle and cruise control cables to allow the throttle to actually close fully? Badger.

|On or around Sat, 04 Nov 2006 17:20:12 +0000, Howie | enlightened us thusly: | |>

|>I discovered that it's impossible to see (never mind, check) the |>inlet manifold gasket. I suppose it's under there somewhere? |>Bloody V8s. They are a bit scary aren't they? | |lovely engine. I forget which version you've got... but on the hotwire ones |the idle-speed compensation thing seems to mean that it takes a while to |drop back to proper idle sometimes.

Perhaps I just need to re-learn my gear-changing then. Certainly more difficult than any car I've had. I didn't know there were 2 types of V8s on the Disco II. Sorry if I'm being a bit thick, but what does the 'hotwire' version mean? Mine is a Jan 2000 model at 3950cc.

I've joined the Disco Owners Club and subscribe to LRO mag. So, hopefully I will become a bit more knowledgable on my own vehicle as time goes on!

H.

"Howie" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com...

Disco II only has one type of injection system, the Bosch Motronic M.5.2.1 system. The "Hotwire" is the Bosch-Lucas 14CUX system, and was fitted to all Rangerover classic 3.9 and disco series 1 3.9 engines (and the early EFI 3.5 series 1 disco's), the predecessor to that being the "Flapper" Bosch-Lucas

4CU system as fitted to the early 3.5 EFI Rangerovers. GEMS (Lucas-Sagem) was fitted to Rangerover P38 4.0 and 4.6 models up until around '99, then they also got the Motronic system. All Motronics are easily recognisable as the inlet manifold is a "bunch of bananas" with the throttle body positioned to the front of the left hand rocker cover (facing direction of travel), all earlier systems having a large central rectangular plenum chamber with the throttle body centrally mounted (lengthwise) to the left hand side. Hotwire simply means that the air mass metering is done by measuring the change in resistance caused by airflow over a heated wire element. Flapper systems meter air by the airflow causing the deflection of a plate against a spring. The Gems and Motronic type systems both utilise hotwire type mass airflow sensing, but the Motronic is fully mapped with a constant fuel supply pressure, whereas all other systems reference fuel pressure against inlet manifold pressure (depression) as a means of load compensation. In theory, metering of fuel is tighter controlled with the Motronic and therefore emissions control is of improved accuracy, the main reason for the changes over the years. Motronic and Gems both have features that allow control of the ignition spark and timing (utilising knock sensors, and having features such as ignition retard whilst changing gear on an auto for smoother gearchanges), unlike their predecessors, but the Motronic takes this one step further by having a constant misfire detection system - it does this by calibrating itself to a series of drillings around the flywheel and sensing a misfire by the minute change in rotational speed as a misfire occurs causing a frequency change at the sensor which is monitoring the passage of these drillings. All clever stuff, and done to meet OBD2 legislative protocols. Badger.

Bloody 'ell. You know EVERYTHING.

Really interesting stuff. I've even printed it out and put it in my land file (which is getting noticeably thicker week-by-week).

Thanks v much.

|>

|> I discovered that it's impossible to see (never mind, check) the |> inlet manifold gasket. I suppose it's under there somewhere? |> Bloody V8s. They are a bit scary aren't they? | |Nope, nice simple engine! ;-) |Just a thought, it sounds almost as if the throttle cable is adjusted too |tight, is there a bit of slack in both the throttle and cruise control |cables to allow the throttle to actually close fully? |Badger. | Hi again.

Just in case you thought I have ignored all advice and disappeared, I haven't. But I couldn't find a leak in the inlet manifold either.

However, it has just developed an exhaust blow from either the bottom manifold gasket on the OS manifold, or just below that, (meaning that the CAT casing might have cracked at that point.

It is going in on wednesday for a proper investigation and hopefully just a new manifold/cat gasket. I am hoping that this exhaust leak (which is above the cat sensor) has been the problem all along and been causing the fast-running and also the engine-stall when pulling away.

Whadda you reckon?

H.

-- Pontins History E-Mail: snipped-for-privacy@pontinshistory.co.uk Please visit

Skype ID (instant messaging and video calls): howie10

Possible, I suppose...... Badger.

|> |> |>

|> |> I discovered that it's impossible to see (never mind, check) the |> |> inlet manifold gasket. I suppose it's under there somewhere? |> |> Bloody V8s. They are a bit scary aren't they? |> | |> |Nope, nice simple engine! ;-) |> |Just a thought, it sounds almost as if the throttle cable is adjusted too |> |tight, is there a bit of slack in both the throttle and cruise control |> |cables to allow the throttle to actually close fully? |> |Badger. |> | |> Hi again. |>

|> Just in case you thought I have ignored all advice and |> disappeared, I haven't. But I couldn't find a leak in the inlet |> manifold either. |>

|> However, it has just developed an exhaust blow from either the |> bottom manifold gasket on the OS manifold, or just below that, |> (meaning that the CAT casing might have cracked at that point. |>

|> It is going in on wednesday for a proper investigation and |> hopefully just a new manifold/cat gasket. |> I am hoping that this exhaust leak (which is above the cat |> sensor) has been the problem all along and been causing the |> fast-running and also the engine-stall when pulling away. |>

|> Whadda you reckon? |>

|> H. | |Possible, I suppose...... |Badger. | Hi. Just an update: All exhaust manifold gaskets have been replaced and there is no exhaust blow now. The CAT isn't damaged at all. It has halped a little bit regarding the drop in power just on initial pulling off in 1st gear. But done nothing to help the tickover problem, which is still running at 750rpm all the time. I did check the throttle and cc cables and there is plenty of play in them. Wierd eh? Supose it's going to end up going into a dealership in the end to have is analysed properly. That really hurts!

H.