OT: Fuel prices, not quite what you'd expect..

Believe it or not we're not that expensive on fuel per litre figures compared to the rest of Europe;

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-------------------- Switzerland - unleaded 0.92, diesel 1.02 Spain - unleaded 1.00, diesel 0.94 Austria - unleaded 1.02, diesel 1.01 Sweden - unleaded 1.11, diesel 1.27 Italy - unleaded 1.15, diesel 1.15 UK - unleaded 1.16, diesel 1.29 Germany - unleaded 1.19, diesel 1.12 France - unleaded 1.24, diesel 1.22 Denmark - unleaded 1.28, diesel 1.32 Netherlands - unleaded 1.29, diesel 1.15 Belgium - unleaded 1.30, diesel 1.18 Norway - unleaded 1.40, diesel 1.45

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Strange how the price of diesel compared to petrol varies so much though, we have the third most expensive diesel prices but only the sixth most expensive petrol prices for example.

Also, fuel protests overseas, at least we're not seeing people killed or lorries being torched while drivers are inside them;

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Reply to
Ian Rawlings
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The news article says that the hauliers are protesting because of being undercut by people from other countries using cheaper fuel.

That table shows that the fuel doesnt seem especially cheap throughout most of Europe. Where are the foreign truckers getting their so much cheaper fuel from? Surely they cant get all the way from eastern europe and back without refueling?

I saw them on the tv here last week complaining that the European trucks could undercut them - but looking at a map and that list, surely most trucks coming into the uk through dover must have refuelled in either france, germany, belgium or similar on the way - and all of those are quite pricey?

Reply to
Tom Woods

No idea where this mystery cheap fuel is coming from overseas, and given that there are hauliers protesting throughout europe, it does make you wonder, especially with the most violent protests being in Spain where the fuel is cheapest!

I'm not sure however if the "cheap fuel" from other countries is actually down to the hauliers in those countries getting rebates from their governments, remember that the fuel price tables are the prices for Joe Public, so it may be that subsidies make a seemingly expensive country actually very cheap for the haulage industry. That's a bit of information I don't have.

Reply to
Ian Rawlings

A lot of the northerly East Europeans also route through Luxembourg, where fuel's cheaper. I do it in the coach where practicable, as it can save over a hundred pounds on a tankful. It's worth taking a diversion of a hundred miles or so to do it.

The Motorway services in Luxembourg do a *lot* of business in both fuel and cigarettes with foreigners "just passing through".

Some of the truckers have a thousand litres or so of fuel on board, which will get them from Luxembourg to London & back quite easily. That saves them at least a couple of hundred pounds over filling up in either Germany or Britain.

Reply to
John Williamson

Further up this thread mention was made of large auxillary tanks fitted in the gap between the can and trailer with capacities in the order of 2,000l (400 gallons or so) that gives them a range of 6000 miles at 15mpg.

My geography is crap for distances. How far is it from these eastern european countries to say Manchester?

Reply to
Dave Liquorice

Autoroute says Warsaw to Manchester is about 1500 miles.

Mind you, the 38 tonners are usually doing 9 mpg or worse. 400 gallons still gives them the return mileage, just about. They probably fill up in Luxembourg both ways.

Reply to
John Williamson

There has recently been a narrowing of the gap because the Pound has fallen around 20% against the Euro over the past year. We're now thereabouts 1,2euro / pound, whereas last year it was 1,45 (or more).

A couple of days ago when I filled up, diesel was 1,35Euro/l - last year that would have been the equivalent of 93p/l, but today it is equivalent to 1,13p/l simply because of the exchange rate differences, so makes the UK appear not quite so out of line with Europe as it once was.

Matt

Reply to
Matt M

17p cheaper than here!

I'll be having some of that then :-)

Lee D

Reply to
Lee_D

Over the last 2,000,000km our fleet of trucks has averaged 2.1km per litre which is around 6mpg.

Reply to
EMB

isn't there a boat FFS?

Reply to
William Tasso

This is Autoroute 4015... the "Wot water?" Version.

Reply to
Lee_D

On or around Thu, 12 Jun 2008 02:59:39 -0700 (PDT), Tom Woods enlightened us thusly:

There's another aspect: some other countries charge less road tax and have tolls. Operators from those countries can cut rates here where we don't have tolls and have high road tax.

Add in a 15ppl saving on say 1000 litres of fuel, probably at least once a week...

Reply to
Austin Shackles

Not to mention the rent on the depot/ office being negligible, the driver working for peanuts by West European standards, the low standard of maintenance, an almost total disregard for drivers' hours rules...... (24 hours or more straight driving with only the break on the ferry aren't unusual, according to the VOSA guy I was talking to in Maidstone the other day. He pointed to the lorry he'd stopped a couple of hours previously & jangled the keys, figuratively.)

Maybe even subsidised loans to buy the truck in the first place.

They're undercutting, alright, but the way they do it would get them put off the road in most countries. The cheaper fuel is as much of a red herring now as it was when the British truckers had all those "Fair play on fuel" bumper stickers made up.

At the time, it paid truckers in Kent to take the Chunnel or a ferry with an empty lorry & fill up in France. The French were moaning like mad about the direct taxes they paid out of their wages, so a lot of them moved their offices to Belgium, as did Eddie Stobart, among others.

Incidentally, maximum road tax on a 38 tonner is about 8 quid a day based on a 5 day week. Add another tenner a day for operator's licence compliance & paperwork, & it's not *that* much, against what I've been told you can charge for a 38 tonner per day.

Sorry for the rant, it's been a stressful few days.

Reply to
John Williamson

Send the whinging truckies to NZ for a while, then they'll realise they haven't got it too bad. Road tax on a 38 tonne artic is about 30p/mile (conversely there is no tax component to diesel currently selling for

70p/l).
Reply to
EMB

Fuel tanker drivers over here on strike over pay are getting a bad press, given that they've refused a rise from 32,000 quid a year to

37,000 with 41,000 being possible with overtime, for what is at best a semi-skilled job.
Reply to
Ian Rawlings

There is something not quite right the with stories and/or figures. The =

union is saying that they are earning the same now as they were in 1992.= I doubt very much they were earning over 32k in 1992. That would have been= an *extremely* good wage for a manual worker back then. It's a pretty da= mn good wage now, considering the UK average is about 24k...

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11 June 2008 21:14 UK"The Unite union says drivers' average pay, before overtime, of =A332,00=0 has not increased since 1992."

However an earlier BBC reporte sheds a different light on the subject:

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5 June 2008 18:29 UK> Hoyer's Bernie Holloway called Unite's decision to reject their improv=ed

I don't actually understand that last Unite statement and it doesn't sit= against Hoyer's statement above it.

Reply to
Dave Liquorice

The bit they're not reporting lately, and which the Union reps have now dropped totally from their script is, as you mention, the Union rep's sotto voce "In real terms", which slipped out in an early interview.

I'm afraid they get *no* sympathy from me, especially after I heard the Union guy on Radio 4 this morning.

Oh, & 10 or so years ago, the drivers were working directly for Shell, & Hoyer hadn't yet got the contract to carry the fuel, so the comparison is totally invalid anyway. Like saying chalk is worse than cheese.

Reply to
John Williamson

"In real terms"

Steve

Reply to
Steve Taylor

What's real about it?

Reply to
GbH

It's "real" funny when you read one quote from a trucker justifying his wage demands who says "I can do your job, but you can't do mine, you don't have the HGV license and certificates".. Unless he was talking to a shelf-stacker at the time I wouldn't be so confident!

Reply to
Ian Rawlings

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