Xenon headlamps

On or around Sun, 27 Nov 2005 14:34:55 GMT, "Derek" enlightened us thusly:

Osram Silver Star, Philips Vision Plus are brand names i think for the "50% brighter" ones.

HID lamps, btw, as opposed to "extra bright bulbs", are only legal in things with self-levelling headlamps, IIRC, although you can indeed get conversions for normal lamps if you want to spend the moolah. You need an inigiter unit (basically, a high-voltage dc-ac converter, I think) and the "bulb" bit to fit the headlamps. I've seen conversions for H4 headlamps for sale, I think they were about 300 bucks.

On or around Sun, 27 Nov 2005 20:45:47 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice" enlightened us thusly:

supremely pointless, not to mention illegal and dangerous. Illegal mostly cos the extra-blue ones are higher than normal output and not E marked, so not legal for fitment except to old motors. Even on old ones I think you're supposed to have an "approval mark".

the Philips vision plus or Osram silver star are visibly better, IME.

On or around Sun, 27 Nov 2005 17:09:58 +0000 (UTC), "Badger" enlightened us thusly:

quite so. I dunno why they can't have a credible beam pattern, mind.

Course, that self-levelling doesn't really work as most of the dazzling is caused by road angles and not by poor vehicle loading. What you really need is terrain-following radar that keeps the lights pointing at a point on the road 40 yds or wotever in front of the car. It could also be usefully linked to a HUD unit in the dash and project an image of the road ahead onto the windscreen for use in foggy conditions...

trouble is, the system would probably cost about half a million to install.

"PDannyD"

Better still, everyone should stop driving except me, so I never have to dip and can use the full width of the road on blind bends. Lovely. I could even mount two lighthouse bulbs on the front.

Huw

Stop that! You're being silly! :-)

Aye, lighthouse bulbs aren't that powerful, huge range from 12W to

1.5kW from a (quick) look through:

They just have socking big reflectors and lenses to capture all the light and squirt it out in a narrow beam.

Dave> On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 14:43:03 -0000, Nige wrote: >> Yeah, i have done some research, HID are totally different, ...

Dave> Quite, HID is High Intensity Discharge. That is they are a Dave> form of arc lamp and need special control gear to start and Dave> run them. You cannot simply swap the bulb and magically get Dave> HID lights.

Dave> You can get "uprated" or "xenon" ordinary halogen filament Dave> bulbs with blue paint one 'em to make your lights look like Dave> HID but that strikes me as remarkedly pointless. Why Dave> generate light then filter some of it out?

Dave> "Xenon" bulbs without the blue coating may offer more lumens Dave> per watt but there is an awful lot of FUD out there.

Nicely explained.

I upgraded my Rangie (P38A) to HID a few months back. The results are awesome - the only downside is that people keep flashing me thinking I have main beam on.

With the newer kits, the upgrade isn't much more difficult that replacing the bulb. You have a control unit that needs mounting somewhere, then you hook up one end of the wires to the existing headlamp connector, and the other to the expensive HID discharge tube and fit it in the headlamp. The come in H4, H7, etc sizes.

more information, if anyone is interested. Cost around 300 quid,which isn't cheap, but it makes a hell of a difference at night. Andy

In other words, you are dazzling them which means either the beam pattern is wrong or the height is incorrect. Either way, you are actually increasing the likelihood of you causing an accident and are now an extreme danger to other road users on dark roads! Not to mention an illegal lighting setup, see my other comments re. auto height levelling for this very reason. What happens if something big and heavy is suddenly blinded coming towards you and hits you, putting you in, say, a coma? Or worse, killing the other driver?? Is it really worth it just for you to see an extra couple of feet in front of you?? When upgrading lights, we need to adopt a sensible and responsible approach, preferably within the law, but definitely not at the expense of others! beam pattern and adjustment is all-important, get those two right and rarely do you need the complexity of hid. Badger.

Badger> In other words, you are dazzling them which means either Badger> the beam pattern is wrong or the height is Badger> incorrect.

Not at all. The lights are correctly adjusted. The car has passed an MOT since they were fitted. The car has air suspension, which keeps it levelled regardless of load.

After it happened a few times, I was sufficiently concerned enough check the lights from the view of an oncoming car. They don't dazzle as such, because they are aimed correctly. But they do LOOK brighter

- sufficently so that once in a while, someone will flash their headlights at me. Funnily enough, it happens more around "early dusk" when the lights look much brighter, despite there being sufficient ambient light to make them less dazzling.

Badger> mention an illegal lighting setup, see my other comments

What's illegal about them? You keep stating that HIDs are illegal, but as far as I am aware the MOT test is the final arbiter of what is, or isn't, safe to take out on the road.

Andy

Don't - my nasty little mind was considering one of these:

Rigged as an auxilliary lamp. I've checked, and an FFR generator will put out enough juice to run it - just.

P.

"AndyC the WB" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@cunningham.me.uk...

Yes, it keeps the car level, that's not the same as headlamp levelling though but better than none at all. The BMW xenon factory fitted HID lamps, for example, move instantly the suspension moves to compensate for height and to prevent dazzle.

I can understand that, in dusk conditions they appear brighter due to the human eye not having adjusted any further than to compensate for a lower ambient light level.

Right, first point, HID's in themselves aren't illegal, if installed in compliance with c&u regs, but there's a big difference between legality to fit and mot rules. For instance if you remove the cat on an lpg vehicle it'll pass an emissions test for lpg, but it's illegal insomuch as you are breaking construction and use regs for the model year and type approval. The only HID setups that I am allowed to fail on mot's are those which do not comply with current mot regulations for beam pattern and adjustment, although if only adjustment is required then I will adjust (where possible) and pass. They (HID) are only illegal insomuch as the aftermarket ones are not linked into an automatic levelling system that takes its input from suspension movement sensors, and that is not an MOT testable item, so they pass an MOT on that loophole. Same as corroded fuel lines can be an obvious source of a fire if a car has an accident, yet no matter how bad the corrosion they are only a fail if they are actually leaking at the time of the test, same as a fuel tank that leaks when 3/4 full but is presented for test with only 1/4 in it, you have to pass it (and advise) even though you know it will leak when full. As you can see, the MOT is only a test of certain items in the condition in which the vehicle is presented at the time of the test, not a final arbiter of what is or isn't safe to take on the road. Further examples being a corroded sill that has been filled, within 12" of a seatbelt mounting - if the owner says "the filler is only covering the welded repair" even though you know better you still can only pass and advise, you can't fail on corrosion if you can't see it! Also if you remove a front bumper and expose sharp welded body seams then that still isn't a fail (as long as all lighting etc is still present and operating correctly) because the letter of the law is sharp edges "caused by corrosion or damage". I hope that helps you to understand a bit better what I was trying to say. Badger.

Well you'll probably see it coming but doubtful if you'll have time to reflect on your folly!

Those factory fit Xenon's aren't all that they are made out to be. The dipped beam has such a sharply defined cut-off with a black void beyond that I made a point of not specifying Xenon when I changed the xenon fitted BMW. Have not missed them one little bit. OTOH cars coming towards me with xenon don't bother me either. People using fogs on a clear night do.

Huw

Wow! The ultimate for rabbit lamping.

Huw

On or around Mon, 28 Nov 2005 13:30:40 -0000, "Huw" enlightened us thusly:

now that's what I call a spotlight.

Well for me ordinary halogen headlights were a big improvement over the sealed beam ones.

Those blue headlamps that cars have nowadays are altogether both brighter than they ought to and need to be and I find them dazzling. Being the grumpy old sod I am I'd ban em if I had half the chance.

Yeah the originals are not to good, but consider what I had to put up with on my Lambretta scooter many many moons ago. A 15 watt headlamp that dimmed when you went round corners because of the direct electrics. Yes 15 watts and that was legal, it could go nearly 60 mph and as a rule was faster than my current landie.

Yeah. Anyone know of a 12v version?

At 50 yards it'll cook 'em for you too! TonyB