Dual Mass Flywheel

"Ivan" gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

D'you think that the Logan could be built to that quality for that price if it wasn't basically a discontinued high-volume model built in a factory owned, built, fitted-out and run by a large Western European manufacturer, but with labour at very low cost?

What's going to happen as Romania starts to feel the economic benefit of being in the EU, and tends more towards the EU mean for cost of living & salaries? It's already happening - it's only a couple of weeks since the Dacia staff returned from striking for a 65% pay rise. They've settled on

That's interesting, ta. Of course, it's still the cost of the parts that will kill modern cars but if they have less of them and they're cheaper...

Si

However I did read a while back (I could probably Google for it) that some of the larger companies such as Ford and GM were seriously toying with the idea of setting up production lines in China to produce ultra cheap vehicles.

"Ivan" gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

Most of the major manufacturers are either already in China or running there as fast as they can. But not for export. For the _huge_ (and rapidly expanding) Chinese domestic market.

Perhaps I've got it wrong, but I could swear that someone said that there was a Korean manufacturer who offered a five year free parts + labour warranty? If something along those lines could be applied to a £5000 basic vehicle, which may or may not have to be dumped after five years of use, that works out at around a thousand pounds a year, a prospect which I'm sure millions would jump at.

"Ivan" gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

Not just the Koreans. A quick google comes up with Fiat, Hyundai, Daihatsu - probably others.

Not exactly a great environmental strategy, though, is it? Lots of short term manufacture/global distribution/disposal...

Yes, that's perfectly reasonable I suppose, but my point was that it's not a good thing for a single, hugely expensive component to be responsible for the scrapping of an otherwise perfectly good vehicle.

The answer is to make spares cheaper then, innit?

Si

Good for parts though, eh? :o)

As long as it's not the same part(s) that keeps failing. Which it probably will be.

Si

Well, this is probably where someone will point out the fallacy in my thinking... but my thoughts were that the lower the revs, the lower the fuel consumption, and as long as the engine would happily and easily run in the highest gear available, it should be fine. If it struggled etc, then change down, but otherwise use the highest gear available.

Am I wrong in this thinking?

David Hearn gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

At 30 in 5th, you'll be slugging the damn thing along way below efficient revs - barely off idle - and you'll have very little control when minor speed changes are required. Relatively large throttle inputs will be required for minor increases in speed, so more fuel will be being thrown in, and you'll need to change down for any decrease in speed.

"Mungo \"Two Sheds\" Toadfoot" gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

Probably, yes. Some parts prices really do take the piss - I've heard of £2,700+vat for a Mitsu L200 power steering box... Obviously, that's not justifiable in any way, shape or form.

If it's a part that goes regularly, though, there'll usually be an alternative - that p/s box is apparently available recon for £300 all in.

Well, when you're driving along for a mile or so at 30mph with little need for change in speed is that an issue? Yes, if I then need to accelerate quickly, I'll drop down. Otherwise I'm usually quite happy to apply a slight increase in throttle and accelerate slower - but certainly not unusually slow (so not an issue for other road users). You're correct, that the revs are low - probably around 1,250 rpm or so

- but it seems very happy to cruise along at those revs, and it'll happily (albeit not at hot hatch rate!) accelerate when the speed limit changes.

Something I would like to find out is the most efficient rev band so I can try to aim for that. I'm aware of the max power output, and the max torque revs, but as yet I've not found what the best revs to fuel usage point is.

Would you expect to get better fuel consumption at, say, 30mph in 4th @

David Hearn gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

Ummm, how do you know there won't be a need for a change in speed? Some road hazard appearing?

The day that becomes important to me is the day I kill myself...

I guess that it would be just as easy to design a vehicle which could very easily and quickly be completely refurbished, or if needs be completely dismantled at little if any extra cost in production .

However it's just not in the manufacturers economic interest to do so, therefore until we can get our governments to put their money where their mouth is (which they won't because of jobs and taxation) and start being prepared to use the big stick then things aren't going to change, at least not in the foreseeable future.

Similarly the electronics industry, where despite the WEEE legislation stuff like flat screen TVs and washing machines are still winding up in skips after two or three years in ever increasing numbers. In the main for no other reason than manufacturers are allowed to get away with making none serviceable items, so don't carry spares and are unable to facilitate any kind of customer after care, assuming that with so many obscure 'in house' names nowadays that it's at all possible to even trace who the actual manufacturers are!

THe pedal in the middle will let you slow down in any gear. HTH.

Umm why would yoiu guess that, I can't think of a single example.

Whilst I accept there are times when you may need to accelerate out of a problem, I tend to prefer to slow down when I encounter a hazard (rather than end up encountering the hazard faster!). Additionally, if I did need to accelerate out, then I'd probably either have to change down, or floor it (and accept it may not speed up as fast). But to be honest, at

Heh.

David Hearn gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

Or accelerating past it...

But if you lift at 1200rpm in 5th, you'll retain more speed for longer than lifting at 1750 in 4th.

I'm just recovering from the quote an IBM guy just gave us for a 1T SATA disk - 15,000 quid!

There's a man who really doesn't want some business...

cheers, clive