Long shot...

Moray will be the guiding light here, but I'll have a stab in the meatime!

Is this the 85 or the 100ps engine? The 85 uses a regualar injector pump with a shielded electrical connector, and a small immobilizer unit under the dash.

The 100ps uses an entirely electronically controlled pump with a more 'regular EDC ECU' with immobilizer built in.

Programming the two is the same. If you have the master RED key, you do it yourself.

If not, the dealer does it using his Testbook. They clear the ECU of all keys, and then programme one or two (or three or 4 etc)

If the ECU will not accept the programming, then either they are doing it wrong, or there is a problem with the pickup coil around the barrel (or its wiring)

The dealer is at fault here, as the car was working when it went in, so its at their cost to fix it within reasonable time.

Ensure you put them under polite pressure to get it working , if not involve Trading Standards.

Tim..

In that case I think it must be 100ps, whatever that is.

Ah. That was the problem that sent it to the dealer. Neither of the previous two owners had the master key either.

Yep, that's exactly what they did.

It didn't.

They couldn't get it to work, so they hooked up to Ford's main computer so that Ford could see what was going on. Apparently Ford couldn't come up with an answer either.

Sounds good from where I'm sitting. I'm going to see if I can bring someone else in on this - the previous owner knows more about vehicles than I and has been trying to help. I'll give him a shout - between us all we might just get somewhere.

Coombs (Coombs ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

Pferdestark. German standard for power output. More or less equal to bhp at "normal" kind of numbers for cars etc.

Tell the bunch of hapless clowns to try programming it with a battery charger connected at the same time. I've had older ford stuff come up with programming errors during the security access time delay if the battery dropped a bit, but connecting a battery charger up, and starting again would solve the problem.

Another possibility is the new Master key they're trying to programme is faulty, and they've not considered trying one of the normal keys first (master key is identical, except for the colour).

Given that everything was working fine before hand, I'd rule out the transceiver, unless they happened to damage it during fitting the new barrel, but I would expect some form of fault code if it wasn't reading the keys properly.

So it's 'horse strength' or as we would say horsepower? Thankyou.

"....?!"

Good grief!

Tee hee - I don't think anyone's thought of that!

Thank you very much. Do I have any recourse against the dealer? They're claiming now that "those units do fail, of course, just like everything else." Well yes, I expect they do, but what an odd coincidence for it to fail just when it was expected to accept a new code!

Moray, I don't suppose you're anywhere near south Wales, are you? I'd love to be able to take you with me when next I visit the dealer...

On or around Fri, 7 Dec 2007 13:09:46 -0000, "Tim.." enlightened us thusly:

It's 85 PS turbo and it's EPIC ecu. AFAIK all the turbo transits (certainly all post 92) are EPIC and electronic diesel control, not mechanical pump. I know this, 'cos it used to be mine.

they replaced that, despite the fact that it was working when taken there.

I'm inclined to agree, but the only thing they have left in their book-of-how-to-fix-transits is to replace the ECU, and they claim there are none to be had.

I've been told that a normal mechanical bosch pump will work on the turbo engine and I can retune it. That's one option.

Also, I've been looking a bit and I reckon the Land Rover TDi pump (also bosch) would probably fit and this has the extra bit on top with the diaphragm to make it respodn to boost pressure.

The other option is a scrap N/A transit, and swap the engines, either get the turbo engine sorted later and replace it or flog it.

On or around 07 Dec 2007 13:53:57 GMT, Adrian enlightened us thusly:

it's German for "horse-strength" I think. Although I favour the idea that it stands for Pferde Scheiße...

On or around Fri, 7 Dec 2007 17:03:49 -0000, "moray" enlightened us thusly:

possible - the battery is a decent size and... erm... lessee... maybe 20 months old. It was new just before I had the motor, which is about 18 months ago. Idiot bloke who had it before replace the battery when it had a dud alternator... which I then replaced. But still, if it's that sensitive to battery volts, it could be that.

I bet they've not thought of that one...

so would I. The LDV manual for EPIC/PATS has a big list of fault codes you can get for different stuff, mind, it also has a list of "non-coded faults", too.

oops. hangon. list of fault codes it can flash on the LED, not EPIC list. It's EPIC that has a big list and non-coded ones as well.

the list for the PATS seems to cover most things. I can't cut and paste it, it's a specially-crippled document, which annoys me.

Hello Austin, thanks for stopping by.

Oops sorry, my mistake.

I'm never *ever* having a modern vehicle ever again. Damned computers - they're great in their place, but what's the use of a programme that can't be overridden when necessary?

On or around Sun, 9 Dec 2007 23:15:23 -0000, Coombs enlightened us thusly:

My personal opinion is that they screwed up somewhere and won't admit it.

BTW, if they fail even with the new ECU (assuming that's what they've got for it) then I would do the following:

require them to remove all new parts except the ignition lock and associated keys. Pay for lock and keys and fitting same but nowt else. Get the motor towed and we'll hunt a replacement engine/pump of the mechanical kind.

I've got me eye on a pump for a LR TDi which is also a 4-cylinder 2.5, and I reckon it'll fit and work with a bit of tweaking. Failing that a non-turbo transit pump should work, or swap the engine for a non-turbo, which will definitely work.

However, I wouldn't get the dealer to do any of those things, I'd go to a suitable motor-fettler, which I know you know of.

I'm inclined to agree, but what would I know.

OK folks, I know Austin and trust his judgment where vehicles are concerned. I'd like a second, or even third opinion on the next bit though:

Austin's referring to a phone call I received this morning telling me there's "the part needed", but it's in Nottingham. I asked what choice I had and was told 'none'. OK, go ahead... In the same call I was told I was facing a bill of around £450 to £500, but it was specified (and I didn't ask) whether this is the total I can expect to pay, or whether it is just for getting the part sent from Nottingham to south Wales.

I don't actually know what the part is that they've got: I was out at the time and the call came to my mobile. Reception was good; clarity was not.

So, car people, what do you think?

Moray, you seem to be the local expert on this sort of thing - do you agree?

Austin, do you mean Denis?

On or around Mon, 10 Dec 2007 22:04:31 -0000, Coombs enlightened us thusly:

probably, unless you know others :-)

I'm too far away and lack indoor facilities, until I finish building it, and that'll be next year sometime at this rate.

Aye, Denis was a real 'find'.

Incidentally, the main bod working on the bus turns out to be the foreman. He's got over 25 yrs as a time-served mechanic under his belt, so presumably he's up to speed with all sorts of engineering, including mechanical and electronic. I suppose I should be glad the bus is getting the best available treatment, but... *sigh*

On or around Tue, 11 Dec 2007 23:26:58 -0000, Coombs enlightened us thusly:

at least he *is* a mechanic.

Not heard about scrap van yet, waiting for mate's boss to decide how much he wants for it. But engines seem common on fleabay.

"Austin Shackles" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com...

I'd check that. From memory the NA engine was 74/75PS, then I thought the 85 was a low-blow turbo with mechanical fuel pump, with the EPIC being saved for the 100PS version.

I'm not sure how long the mechanical pump turbo's were produced, but I've certainly worked on one a few years ago.

For a temporary measure, it would be easier just sticking a standard pump onto the existing engine, and change the accelerators pedals. It might suffer from a bit lag without any extra fuel to spin the turbo how it should, but you should get a slight bit extra power under load compared to a NA engine.

On or around Wed, 12 Dec 2007 11:43:15 -0000, "moray" enlightened us thusly:

It's got a sodding great bundle of wires going to the injection pump, and an ECU under the dash... It's definitely not a normal injection pump and it has the fly-by-wire throttle.

I was thinking along those lines, and the pump can be reset up to a point.

However, from looking at pictures, the LR TDi uses a very simialr pump, and it's the same size engine, and it has the diaphragm thing on the pump to respond to the boost pressure. I reckon it could be made to work. 's a fair bet that the ford dealer won't want to try that though :-)

That'll be epic then.

To be fair that's because there's not a great deal in common. Sadly the pump & ecu are probably fine,but finding anyone at ford with enough of a clue to fix the PATS issue is probably harder.