MOT station trying it on?

You're comparing apples to oranges. The old pumps with a grease nipple lasted longer than the shitty things that took their place. Where we are today with the state of the art is not a fair comparison.

Yes, but with minis and 1100s etc you could remove a shim and take out the wear for nothing if you DIY.

Julian.

I'm comparing the waterpumps of yesteryear that had grease nipples, and a short service life, to the ones we have today that have no grease nipples and a long service life.

It's entirely possible that there were some in between that had no grease nipples, and a short service life.

That doesn't make me want to return to the days where waterpumps had grease nipples however...

Only if you were a complete and utter bodger. The amount of play you could safely remove by doing that is minimal.

If the wear was enough to fail an MOT then either complete shim removal would not remove all the play, or more likely it would cause the joint to seize solid in certain positions. This can, and did, lead to the tapered pin shearing at the shoulder, causing the suspension to drop apart.

The shimming arrangement was purely provided to take up manufacturing tolerances withing a new joint.

Chris

Not really - the wear was never uniform on the ball. If you reduced the clearance at the wear point it 'nipped' elsewhere.

I did loads with no problem, obviously only a muppet would stick it back together so that it went solid at some point. You _could_ remove enough of the wear to effectively continue the joint in service and get it through its MOT, I was doing MOTs then so I know this to be true!

Julian.

That would be practically all of them.

A modern pump design _with_ the option of a grease nipple for those that like to indulge in preventative maintenance - yes please!

Nah, see the reply to DP.

Julian.

The Mini outlived the Metro/100 by two years...

Pretty trick to engineer economically on a transverse OHC engine though ;-)

So you were a bodger then.

Chris

Well I've had several Minis and have never found this. Unless it was out of adjustment from new. If you think about it for a minute the ball simply can't wear evenly.

Well you'd think that, but this (new to me) 1.7DTI Isuzu job has the pump in very clear view, and driven by the 'fan' belt and not the cam belt, so changing it looks a doddle.

You know what, back then people kept cars running as best they could. Stupid never never money from the credit card companies didn't exist and I ran to and fro from the breakers on many occasions to keep customer's cars running who had very little money. We had a good reputation and many happy customers.

Julian.

But they had a spring loaded cup inside - you didn't need them to be adjusted to a gnats c*ck hair to get a joint that would work OK, be safe and be acceptable for an MOT.

Julian.

It's a very long time since I worked on a Mini - but I thought only one of the pair had a spring loaded seat?

Correct, the bottom one is spring-loaded. The top one is unsprung.

I still drive (daily) & maintain Minis. Every year, before the MOT, checking the swivel pins is an essential task. I do, even now, remove shims - I also keep a full set of joints in stock. It is not always necessary to replace the joints - reshimming works fine if it's done carefully.

I agree that the ball pins don't wear evenly, but if they are settled back into a similar position, then the range of movement will be the same as before, so removing shims takes up any slack in that range of movement. They don't need to move in any other direction.

I've never had one fail, even enthusiastiscally driven Mini-style, and it's a long time since I've had one fail an MOT.

They will wear most over the part they move mostly over. Like just either side of straight ahead - and the normal suspension movement. But full suspension deflection or full lock is bound to tighten up if the ball has uneven wear and you remove it all at that point.

If properly lubricated, even with a high annual milage and enthusiastic driving, the joint will last for at least two years. It's the same amount of work to reshim as it is to replace. The cost of a genuine joint kit is

Doesn't make sense to me...

Well, if properly maintained, you shouldn't expect to have an MOT failure with one.

I have known of swivel pins breaking. The other problem with reshimming them is that, in spite of what you have written above, it is impossible to arrive at a situation where a reshimmed joint is within the manufacturer's tolerance of 0.000 to 0.003 inch. It will always be slacker than that somewhere, or tighter somewhere else. Sometimes both! Apart from the risk of pin breakage, if there is excessive play at a normal driving position, the rattle can be felt through the steering. A joint that is slightly tighter than tolerance will squeak, even if correctly greased.

Chris

Which is twice what I pay!

That just makes it even more pointless to reshim them then.

Chris