Re: Quick diesels

It is a good point, and you are right I think. But that situation isn't going to arise because those who make and supply things that involve fossil fuels (from military to car manufacturers) won't let it happen.

I think a much better form of lobby than global warming is the immediate impact of vehicle pollution:

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('UK air pollution 'linked to 40,000 early deaths a year')

Although this relates to other particulates too - brakes and tyres.

At the moment, we seemed to be locked into a mentality of cost and return - and that doesn't factor in wider social and environmental gains. And it's become worse post-Grenfell.

The housing green paper launched last week quite rightly highlights some of the key issues - but offers no money for implementation. So it's private sector - which means it either won't happen, or it'll happen in such a way that we end up paying a fortune for something that has (very) questionable futures.

'Decent Homes' looked all good and reasonable 20 years back. But that led to the demolition or privatisation of hundreds of thousands of homes that couldn't be made 'decent' - and those just happened to be council homes in the main.

Yes, I agree. And I'd much rather the debate shifted to consuming less than finding different ways to consume the same or more. We really don't need all this stuff and mobility IMHO.

I'm not sure about this. I think it's safer to assume that human activity is an important contributory factor - especially if remedial action has wider benefits.

He's certainly on course to shorten everybody's life

Reply to
RJH
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Hydrogen gas has lift and will rise rapidly. Petrol pools under the vehicle or sprays on engine bay walls.

Hydrogen is highly flammable and will ignite at low flow and concentration - making the leak evident and once ignited the risk of explosion reduces. Petrol has a dense vapour with much lower flammability. That vapour cloud can be quite large before it explodes.

One has already gone "pop" in the USA.

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A leak at the filler connector, which is most likely, under test condition, is not very dangerous. I've seen a 1Kg camping gas bottle do about the same, it was just left to flare off a 20ft flame for 6-7 hours. It ran out about midnight so the 200 campers didn't have to sleep in floodlit conditions.

2% of USA filling stations having fires each year (100*(2008-2004)/13). If there were that many in the UK there would be much more reporting of it. 2 states in the USA don't allow self serve and the pump attendants are trained in safety and fire control. The big issue for the USA is they allow latching pump triggers, which allows the user to wander off and build up static charge which is then discharged in the vapour cloud near the filler hole when going to remove the nozzle. UK you discharge any static when you pick up the nozzle as it's earthed and you have to keep hold of it to pump fuel so you stay earthed. If you 1/2 fill, wander off and then come back to complete the fill you have the same static build up risk as USA and a nice big cloud of vapour around the filler neck.

Hyundai are fools they have made a vehicle with limited use (can only go where there are HRS), premium pricing £53K but it's not a premium product. Tesla understood that the price dictated they had to place their product in the premium segment.

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"based on the ix35 SUV has a 100kW fuel cell equivalent to 134bhp, a 144 litre of hydrogen capacity in two tanks, a 100mph top speed and a range of 369 miles." What a (s)nail, 129bhp in a 1988 Nissan Sunny ZX 1.8 coupe did 125 mph. (15 ix35 so far no new ones for 2017) Toyota Mirai is £66K (before grant) or you can rent it on 4 year contract at £9k/year (£750/month). It should be in the Lexus range and have full top end Lexus spec.
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Another lame slug, 152bhp but tops out at 111mph. (30 on road so far) Hydrogen at the pump costs about the same as a petrol car to run. When it comes down to p/mile it can't compete with the 1/2 price battery EV (or even LPG).

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Hydrogen Refilling Stations (HRS) are electrolysis units and take power from the electricity GRID - which all the Hydrogen proponents say lacks capacity to charge EVs. A HRS container can only make enough H2 for 16 fills a day and can store enough for 3 back to back fills, so the wait time after the 3rd fill will be 60 x 24/16 = 90 min. If 3 cars fill up before 9 am it will have made enough H2 to fill 2 more at lunch time. If a 4th car needs filling before 9am then it will be waiting until after

10 am, a 3rd car at lunchtime will be waiting until about half one (using peak demand time electricity). If the number of H2 powered cars gets to any size some people are going to be late getting to work or meetings.
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Every house can fill an EV overnight (on economy 7) while the owner sleeps. £23m of taxpayers money down the drain. It's a last ditch attempt by the fuel majors to keep vehicle users locked into their "value stream".
Reply to
Peter Hill

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