Vauxhall Vectra Cambelt Failure

Vauxhall have a 12month warranty on parts and fitting at masterfit, but your outside that.

Andy

Hi,

Thanks for the reply. I ddi realise I was outside however the car has been serviced at Vauxhall since I had it. In 2003 I had the belt plus pulleys? changed as they said it was necessary. My point of view comes from thinking that according to their recommendations I shouldn't need to change it for another 24,000 miles - thier engineer has checked the damage and says it needs a new engine. He says the fault was caused by premature failure of the cambelt. The manufacturer of the part must give vauxhall a guarantee for them to state their recommendation on, so why would it be unreasonable for me to expect Vauxhall to repair in this situation?

whilst stated guarantee periods are onyl a set length of time, the law which covers these things would expect the product to last a resonable time. You would have reason to believe that it should last longer than 16,000 miles.

You may need to find out why it failed, in case some outside force may have contributed to it. If it was purely the failure of the belt you've three paths you could go for.

1) ask the garage nicely to meet you half way asking that they speak to the makers/manufacturors, you'll obviously be a bit out of pocket 2) speak to the manufacturors nicely similar to 1) 3) take legal action against the garage, you'll have to research the reasonable time thing, uk.legal is sometimes a good place, but take everything said with a pinch of salt, there are a lot of nutter on there!

HTH Matthew

I would certainly say you have a good basis for a claim. If the recommended life of the belt is 40k and it fails at 16 I don't see how they can claim it's not their concern because it's outside the 12 month warranty period.

AFAIK the sale of goods act covers faults that occur within the reasonable life of a product. 12 month guarantees mean little in this context, and 16k from a belt that's supposed to last for 40, can hardly be called reasonable. Mike.

At the end of the day, these things can happen, even to perfectly maintained and serviced engines, there are lots of moving parts.

If you have the engine independently assessed by a professional and he can find a problem with the manufacture of a Vauxhall part causing the failure, you may be in luck, but you have already gotton Vauxhall to asses it, so this is unlikely now.

Getting a dealer service is a good insurance policy, however, they do not guarantee to swap out your engine should something happen, I think it is probably a little unfair to expect this. Go in there, give them some stick about it and see if they can knock some money off of fitting another engine for you, they may break...

Or you could tow it to the top of a big hill and *forget* to apply the handbrake :) Or you could tow it to a field and set fire to it and blame *youths* as a lot of people do. :) (This is a joke only)

Another way to do this cheaply would be to get an engine from a scrappy, have a cheaper back street garage fit it, then trade it in at a Vauxhall dealership in another town/city :)

How old is the car, would Vauxhall consider giving you some discretionary payment? - They will often do this to keep the customer happy, if you are getting a new engine fitted by them.

Andy

Prolly just needs a new head 7 or 8 hundred quid poss less fitted

Oh and Gates belts are fitted to loads of makes from the factory and I choose Gates for my own cars

Here's a few thoughts.

Well over 90% off cambelt failures, are not caused directly by the cambelt failing. They are normally caused by another component failing, leading to cambelt failure. By looking at the cambelt, you can asses how the belt has failed.

As you say, the cambelt idlers (pulleys) were replaced, it is unlikely these were the cause off the failure. The idlers are known to fail (seen them seize, or the bearing collapse), but I've never seen any fail before the revised 40k replacement interval, and they normally rattle for a long time before failing. If they sieze/partially seize, the back off the belt will be worn. If they collapse, the belt will normally survive with no apparent damage, just that the timing will jump. The water pump is another weak point off this engine, which I would guess is the probable cause off failure. They sometimes seize, leading to a snapped cambelt, which gives the impression off a cambelt failure (clean break in belt), or strip the teeth off the belt. The water pump bearings also develop play leading to uneven loading on the cambelt (shows as uneveness across the width off the belt), which alone can cause cambelt failure. Or if the belt survives, the water pump bearings will eventually collapse. Then there is also the possibility that the belt has not been tensioned correctly when fitted, which would show as uneven tooth wear on the belt, and will normally lead to the cambelt teeth failing.

I know some VX dealers have a tendancy to fit a new engine regardless off damage. The requirement off a new engine depends on the extent off the damage. At a minimum, the valves will of been bent and damaged the valve guides. The decision on replacing the engine relies solely on the degree of piston damage. If the valves have simply hit the pistons and bent, I'd just fit a reconditioned head. If it's dropped a valve (ie the valve head has broken off the valve stem), then chances are the top off the piston and the cylinder head will off been mashed, where the valve head has been bouncing around as the engine had come to a halt. Best option in this case is a new engine.

As for warranty, the minimum required by law on vehicle repairs, is 3 months or 3000 miles (whichever comes first). Longer warranty periods are entirely at the repairers/maufacturers discretion. But you can always argue the reasonable life expectancy, but again, you'd have to prove this. There is the argument off was the engine making strange noises before failure (in most cases they do), had you been abusing it (such as missing gears), plus I'm sure there's plenty other arguments the dealer could use. All off which 'you' would have to prove.

If you're not happy, Vauxhall customer service (complaints) are normally very helpful, and will give you an honest answer. If they know the dealer is in the wrong, they will tell you that (and warn the dealer).

1) It's the consequential damage that's your main concern not a part refund on the 60 quid cambelt. 2) Despite what the dealer's engineer said it's possible that (say) the camshaft bearings seized and broke the cambelt. It's happened to me. It's unlikely he did much dismantling to determine this. His determination that "It needs a new engine" would tend to encourage one in that belief. How does he know that pistons have been damaged conrods bent and the head punctured/cracked, or did he just turn it over on the starter and see the camshaft wasn't rotating? No skin off his nose.

I wouldn't let the dealer rebuild the Engine piecemeal with parts out of stores. I had the same and they said the bill would be 800 quid. The final bill was 2.3K (1990 money) and the engine ran like a lame dog for ever after.

Maybe consider an engine from a scrappy or a rebuild at a specialist engine rebuild workshop. How old is the engine?

HTH

DG

a properly fitted belt of any make will last more than the minimum interval, provided the parts it runs with are all in good condition. vectras have an auto tensioner that must be correctly fitted or the belt tension may be too much, leading to failure.

get an independent, real engineer to assess the cause of the problem before jumping up and down.

mrcheerful

Or too little...

"Roy" wrote in news:cv82ed$dm$ snipped-for-privacy@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk:

I've bought a Vectra with a snapped belt. If you have a Haynes manual and a couple of weekends you can do it yourself. Take head(s) off, give to machine shop and get them to skim head(s) and replace any belt valves (I had all 24 bent!). Valves are about a quid each. Buy a gasket set (50quid) and a new cambelt / tensioner (90 quid) and bolt back together; if you want to keep the car for ages use new head bolts etc.

The tensioner seized on my engine, breaking the belt. In fact I think most belt/chain snaps are caused by the other components failing and not the belt/chain itself.

A good local garage should do the job for about 300 to 400quid I would think if it's a 4pot. Or eBay the car and someone will buy it and do the job. I paid 500quid for a V6 SRi for instance.

I've seen a lot of snapped chain/belts and had no piston damage or con-rod damage just bent valves. I think the cause of the bent valves is the fact that when the engine stops the first thing you do is turn the thing over a lot on the starter!

Good luck,

Will

"Tim S Kemp" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@karoo.co.uk:

I think this would be the manufacture get out. From memory you have to turn the engine over by hand and check the tension a couple of times and get it spot on (little pointer between two marks). It would be easy to state that this wasn't done (and no way of proving either way). The belt manufacturer would blame the tensioner manufacture who would blame the fitter!

Will

In article , Moray Cuthill writes

It's my understanding that it's not the idlers that fail, but the tensioner (GF50 plastic tensioner comes to mind).

Both have been known to fail. I've seen both the tensioner, and the idler fail. The last one I done the idler had seized, and had been melted by the belt sliding over it. The owner went very quiet when he was asked if the engine had been making any strange noises before it stopped.

Mike Tomlinson wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@jasper.org.uk:

The tensioner on my Vectra was basically an standard idler wheel with a spring arrangement to push it against the belt. This wheel had failed and there were ball bearings (or what was left of them) all over the place! The belt was shiny as well ran for a while before getting too hot I guess and snapping. I presume that the additional vibration/forces to the bearing of this wheel makes they fail before the other wheels? Saying that the one I replaced had made it to 90k miles!

Will