Advantages v disadvantages of a diesel!!!

I have to add here, a "me too" !

Post 1 was very clear but so far zero actual logical answers in support, just illogical and hysterical posts by diesel lovers that cant really ecxplain why! (They cant explain it simply bbecause the facts destroy their "argument")

Bet the gearbox was scared of the TDi (ma...) After all it makes a ton of power at wot at 1000 rpm and then as you move off it dies as it does not like actually turning...

You gotta luv it!

Well since they dont drive cars for enjoymen but see more profit from the slightly more economical diesels its no wonder and it proves nothing at all except that people who do huge milages use diesels for economic reasons. Which I lready said was the ONLY advantage in post one.

He avoids and ignores real fact because they upset him.

The post is about diesel compared to petrol in regards to performance etc.

Its not about which old scrapyard banger happens to suit you best, but about the general merits of one over the other.

If they actually still do that when old and buggered....

But they eat turbos and wear out pistons, rings, and big ends for the reasons already mentioned that you "didnt like" earlier. And have you ever priced up a shagged diesel injection pump at 80,000 miles... I writes off the car.

Says who????????? I have seen loads shagged diesel cars at far less miles, and a load of old hire cars with twice that!

They dont buy for longevity, most cars can do well enough if maintained, or for comfort or performance, and they accept the extra cost purely because of the mpg bvenefit, as we all well know.

High compression is GOOD at WOT conditions as its efficient and no excess wear happens because a) high compression on a non diesel is always less than 12 to 1 (compared to around 23 to 25 for diesel. b) the engine only sees this compression ratio at WOT in a petrol, all the rest of the time it runs like va sowing macine.

A diesel has to compress the whole air charge at idle upwards! No wonder they are stressed and rattlyt and harsh!

And obviously you too do not understand engines.

OK, give nme one single claim, that I cannot clearly explain to you, that you claim is bulshit. I will take you apart, and I dont need books, and you quite obviously do.

And I am waiting.

How "differently"? Its a simple piston engine just like your old dog diesel. It sucks in air, adds fuel, and burns it. How exactly is that different?

You will of course ignore this, and not be able to reply.

and is in general

Utter bollocks. Brake hp, or kw, is directly comparable just like volts, tons, mph or any other measurement, and this simply shows you lack of understanding.

And please post where you actually got this info? Obviously you cant. You will ignore this too, because as usual u cant answer it.

When a motor is running, in clean oil, there is almost no wear. The wear happens due to oil contamination, cold (oil free starts) acids, carbon (who said diesel?) oil errosion, or overeving beyond spec. Other than this there is negligible wear. PB magazine ran a honda fireblade (900cc 115 rear wheel hp flat out at MIRA for 20,000 miles with only normal servicing, and fuel, and then stripped it. There was no measurable wear on any single component, not even crank shells. That was extreme, but simply proved what all of us expected, and backed up what the oil companies have been telling us for years.

Fools tend to do that when they have no real answers You quite obviously havent a clue when it comes to anything technical.

You could of course produce a reasoned argument if you have the brain or the knowledge, but I suspect you cant. Like everyone reading this.

I challenge you to prove some of your claims.

Totally correct

Race timing at high revs, and milder at low revs so its nice to live with compared to say a bike engine.

Now that is a genuine advantage! Runs on tax free chip fat, or other fuels. OK We now have 3 advantages!

It only took uck knows how many posts to get three!

Thanks!

Mine too but I already knew that, this thread was because I wanted to wind up deseaselers!

Why are there no (there may be very odd exceptiond but dont waste your time...) a) diesel bikes? b) diesel ferraris? c) diesel drag cars or bikes? d) diesel limos or in fact any nice smooth cars? e) F1 cars g) supercars h) mopeds! i) etc...

But there are loads of: a) diesel tractors b) buses c) trucks d) boats e) dumper trucks f) generators g) pumps h) etc..

Its simple. Diesels are good at constant rpm or narrow rpm bandwidth, low power, fuel efficient jobs where noise, smell and weight, are not an issue.

Petrol is good where smoothness, longevity, quiet running, wider powerband (suited to cars or bikes) is needed, and good power to weight is required. Its why you never saw any diesel aircraft!

So what is the fasinacion of putting them in passenger cars? Well I Nthink it started when diesel was really a cheaper alternative. And farmers had loads of pink diesel... And in smaller commercials. like transits etc. Big diesels seem much better and longer lasting than small ones. Small turbo ones seem to have a huge problem with dead turbos as well. Ask any turbo recon shop - they love this facination with small turbo diesels!

All just seems a bit silly to me as they are not naturally suited to a car.

Of course, at least if you are trying to prove a diesel has more torque. A petrol or diesel would have the same amount oif air at low revs once the throttle is opened! But the diesel suffers it ALL the time... The difference is that both start equal at low revs and then the diesel dies a death as revs climb!

That is a consequence of the way they are fueled. On a diesel the fuel is increased automativally as the revs drop. This tries to reinstate the otiginal rpm the diesel pump was trying to maintain. With petrol its the throttle notr the revs that determines fueling, so it will stall. But with the throttle open the petrol will likely make MORE torque than the diesel. Its just a consequence of the fueling. A petrol engine using fly by wire rpm controlled throttle position does the same only better. As does a decent driver...

Let me see... I think you'll find there are /more/ in favour of the idea that diesels are a comprimise of all qualities other than economy than there are in favour of them being better to drive? Oh, and it's Burgerman - but then abuse is your style, why does "typical biker" come to mind? Ahh sorry, stereotypes need not apply - accept my apologies therefore for the "typical biker" comment. "Typical paranoid biker" maybe more appropriate...

!!

But you've spent plenty of effort aguing the case for diesels, when the only case is the one for fuel economy, and in your case but not everyones case whole life costs, because you buy older cars and run them longer.

Speaking as a sound engineer, I'll let you into a little secret. Inside the cabin, behind the extra sound insulation, the unloaded engine noise with less bangs per second (6 cyl and probably lower RPM than the V8) will read lower on the A weighted dB scale (IIRC it was 1dB) which is frequency dependant. Road noise will also differ depending on type of tyre fitted, in fact that will affect the interior noise MORE than the engine. Part of my tyre selection process is picking ones that generate minimal noise.

I'd love to say "none of your business" but unlike some I don't see information that is already in the public domain as suddenly becoming private.

I *chose* the volvo for the seating comfort, passive and active safety, secure load bay with sufficient space, low noise and the ability to seat four adults in relative comfort and cruise quietly at my usual chosen trans-europe speed of 110mph. That and the reputation for reliability and longevity, and the personal track record after being hit drivers side on by a 7.5 tonne fridge in my previous Volvo S40. It is rare that a choice of car is a *need* - a Vectra or a 5 series or a C class would have been a suitable alternative, only the Vectra was in the running due to the amount of money I had available at the time.

I seem to recall the other points you make being irrelevant, as they are properties of petrol cars - by the way, would you like to see me pull away in second gear without touching the accellerator?