Fiat Sceicento Sporting

In news:M6xre.14403$ snipped-for-privacy@newsfe2-win.ntli.net, Rob decided to enlighten our sheltered souls with a rant as follows

I drove a hired Seicento poverty model from Amsterdam to Brussels a few years ago. Thrashed it to within an inch of its life all the way there, and just sat at, um, 90ish all the way back.

Cost me the equivalent of £14.00 in fuel to do something daft like 500 km.

Comfier than the train though.

I've got a moped. I rode it all over the place when I was 16.

Being mechanically restricted to 30mph isn't much fun on today's roads.

Personally, I'd take the Fiat every time.

Douglas

Well, the Zetec-E isn't especially rev happy. It's arguably better than a CVH, but not really by much. The Zetec-SE is much rev happier (at least apart from the detuned 1.4 used in the current Fiesta and older generation Focus).

It's because the CVH is easily tuned, either atmo or turbo, whereas the Zetec-E isn't. But the Zetec-E has a very strong bottom end. This means you can produce more power with greater reliability.

The later CVH engines were much better. Sadly the 1.4, 1.6 and 1.8 are not compatible (as I understand). The 1.8 has a totally different design, but later CVH 1.8 Sierras are much better than earlier machines.

They're also cheap to fix.

Hmm. Aye perhaps - except back in 1995 the Arosa or Lupo wasn't out.

But to be fair the GTI is missing the point. The Cinquecento took the small car concept and proved that you don't have to have a 1.6 125 PS donk and stiff suspension to have a laugh. They're not meant to be quick cars, only feel quick.

The best thing about the Cinquecento Sporting is that you can cane it

10/10th of its abilities and still spend the majority of the time inside the speed limits.

:)

Hehehe.

I thought you liked the Cinquecento though?

Oh you're on about the Ka, heh.

It was more expensive, to the tune of about £1,000. But it also has a superior ride.

If you judge the Cinq by your example, I gotta judge the Ka by ours example. Our Cinq had a bubble of rust coming through the rear hatchback, which was covered under warranty. We've nothing like that with the Ka...

But you're right, at least in the early years. I keep on seeing parked Cinquecentos looked very much the worse for the wear these days. It's quite sad, really.

As for the styling, you've the boxy, sit-up-and-bed Cinquecento, or the swoopy curvy Ka. I've run both, on balance I don't really prefer either exterior. They're different. However, the Ka's interior is much better to live with and it's better equipped. Pre-1996 Cinquecentos didn't have a light-up dashboard, and all had all sorts of strange funkiness with regard to the interior switches. Rear wash / wipe on the dashboard? Electric window switches on the dashboard in the middle? Eh? Not the easiest of cars to get used to.

You're wrong. It is fun. It's different fun. With the Cinquecento, it's great fun to nail it corner after corner after corner. It feels raw, eager, buzzy. The Ka doesn't have the eagerness, but it's more refined, more subtle and a damn sight easier on the ears when you have to take the motorway route.

In some respects it is. Driven four up, nobody gets much room in the back of either. There's about an inch more headroom in the Cinquecento (Dervy measured) and about half an inch less knee room. Neither is comfortable for me to sit in the back. But you're right, there is more room in the Cinquecento.

The Ka is a four seater, the Cinquecento seats five - in theory!

Seats in the normal upright position, the Ka's boot is _significantly_ bigger than the Cinquecento. If you buy a car like this to go shopping, that's important.

Seats folded down, the Cinquecento rules. It has a great boxy cargo hold with more room than the Ka. Access is also better (the Ka has a curvy ass and rear lights that cut in on the shape). And the Cinquecento's rear seat base forms a half height bulkhead, letting the seat backs fold flat.

Mind you the Ka has a split / fold rear seat as standard, which wasn't something my Cinquecento SX had, so you can take three people (including the driver) and something chunky from Ikea, which isn't an option.

More room in the Cinquecento, then, less versatile under certain conditions.

No there's more. The Cinquecento didn't have power assisted super quick steering, most Kas have. It didn't have ABS on the options list. It was an option on all Kas from early 1997. It didn't have air conditioning available in right hand drive form, optional in some Kas from 1997, standard in others, unavailable in the basic one. It had a transmission that would get stuck in fifth and wasn't especially fluid at the best of times - small Ford tranmissions rule the world. Occasionally the rear windscreen would shatter, not something the Ka is known for. It had a ventilation system that could either demist the windscreen or the side windows, but not both at the same time. The Ka can manage this.

I think the Cinquecento is a great machine and I would possibly have another, but as a design, it is simply outclassed by the Ka.

Ford raised the city car game by devising a chassis that slapped everything else in the class about the face with a wed haddock in the twisty material but also gave it a supple ride and decent motorway refinement.

Then lumbered it with a wheezy old pushrod engine and Fisher Price styling.

The Cinq. was boxy, but, especially once lowered, looked just *right*.

I've snipped some stuff, but I'll refer back to the PAS, aircon etc..... what the *f*ck* is the point in stuff like that in a stripped out little hatch? - I mean, it robs the Ka of desperately needed bhp, so you're better off without it.

Cinq. wins every time for me.

*shudder* ANYTHING is better than having to resort to public transport.

On Parkers, it says (or at least, it used to) that the PAS equipped Ka's were about a second slower to 60.

Now THAT'S pittiful :)

*ding*

The Fiat solution for PAS was much better (once it arrived on the Sei) - they used electric assistance rather than using a power-sapping hydraulic pump they grabbed from the parts bin.

In news: snipped-for-privacy@individual.net, DanTXD decided to enlighten our sheltered souls with a rant as follows

To be honest, Dutch public transport is brilliant, it just wasn't available the day I needed it.

And robbed it of feel...

Have you tried the Ka's PAS?

Who cares about the design of the engine? More people don't than do...

The styling is cute, but it's also personal. You're not going to like it because (a) it's trendy to dislike it and (b) it wears a Ford badge.

I'm open minded about such things.

It did not look right. It looked like a boxy lowered Lego car.

The Cinquecento also has the handicap of looking almost exactly like the Lancia Y10 or Fiat Uno from many perspectives. Hmm.

Stripped out? Why did it have electric windows, central locking and the best stereo of the range?

I think you're getting confused between "stripped out" and "couldn't find the space for" here.

So you don't drive anything without PAS, is that it? You said last week that you'd not consider running a car without air conditioning these days?

You also excluded the bits about the Cinquecento's interior being less practical and it having a smaller boot.

In your opinion, which is hugely biased against Fords.

I wonder if it would be the same if the Cinquecento wore a Ford badge and the Ka had a Fiat badge. Yeah I can imagine - "oh sure the Ka has an old generation engine, but it handles so well, it's just right as a small car, and it proves how good the Italians are at making a car look funky. The Cinq, how can they call a 1.1 litre a 'sporting' car?"

Anyway, is the Cinquecento featured in Gran Turismo 4? Oh, look, no it's not. But the pushrod 1.3 Ka is...

I certainly wouldn't ever choose a car without PAS !

Nor would I choose a car without AirCon !

Both the above are mandatory comfort requirements.

Definitely the most important thing about buying a car, is it included in GT4, if it's not, then leave it alone imo :)

Ah f*ok, only thing I drive that's on GT4 is the Interceptor :-(

*exactly*

And it's so much fun round bends.

Ok, I've only driven a Cinq SX, the 900cc engine, but I know the Sporting engine - My car has that same engine but in carb form.

Different league though.

I wanted a Lupo GTi, but no would insure me at the time.

Come on, the CVH was a horrible engine. Horrid tappets as the hydraulics were less than keen on adjusting themselves. Getting one to start was always a trial. The Vauxhall OHC was much better. Started first time, every time and had hydraulic tappets that actually worked. You could even change the clutch without removing the engine OR the gearbox.

Christian.

Take out all the crap from the rear, then you've got a brilliant power to weight as well.

What about a Van Aken Turbo thingy on top?