I think I may have found the ultimate cross country weapon

But I've driven a MkIII Mondeo and it was s**te, as was the MkII Focus based C-Max.

JackH has experience of MkIV Golfs vs MkII Focus.

We've both come to the conclusion that, although the Fords may have a very marginal edge in terms of handling, as an overall ownership experience Ford still have a long way to go to match VW.

I obviously can't comment on the MkIV Mondeo as I haven't yet driven one

- but from what I've seen of it, I'm not sure I'd want one, even if if it does, again, have an edge over the Passat in terms of handling.

I doubt a Mondeo would feel as 'fresh' after 2.5 years / 80k miles as my Passat does, though.

I've not driven a C-max far enough to pass judgment on it. I did 1100 miles in two days in a Mk3 Mondeo though and it was fine, untiring and quite enjoyable on the lanes in Dorset.

I have to base my experiences on the long-term with both from my days in car hire. The Focus was much more reliable than any of the VW stuff we had, and cost a s*it load less to service. I also prefer driving a Focus to a Golf.

Going from the quality of the recent VWs I've driven, I'd say they've completely lost the plot. The Golf I brought up from Surrey the other day was an '06 with 34k miles on the clock, privately owned by a properly anal accountant who'd had it serviced religiously and kept it unbelievably clean and well looked after. It felt loose and baggy compared to our 80k mile 52 plate Focus. Not rattly or tired, just nowhere near as precise.

All depends on use, doesn't it?

Might be fine for that, but I've just done a 400 mile day, of which 380 was on motorways. I know where I'd prefer to be under such circumstances.

Thing is, rental car experiences are relatively short-term - and not seen from the customer's side of the counter, or when the car is several years old.

Even some of the rental companies are moving away from Ford - at least one has replaced their mid-size hatches with the new Bravo.

I've had MkV courtesy cars - they're not as good as a MkIV, but they're still pretty decent. I've also driven a Touran as well as the C-Max - the Touran was significantly better and felt like it would out-last the C-Max and still feel fresh after a few years and 100k miles.

Well, yes, but if I wanted a fun to drive car of that size, I'd buy a

Although the new shape C-Class Sport-Hatch looks bloody tempting - but I think I'll end up with another Passat, or possibly go for a Jetta as it's a more useful size and I can have one with DSG.

We used to keep cars for a year on average, but the Focus fleet would regularly last for a couple of years or 100k miles. The Golfs were gone at the first opportunity.

That's because Fiat are offering car hire companies ridiculously cheap deals. We used to lease Puntos for around £12 a week to use as hire cars. Bravos didn't cost much more. Its simple economics. That's why most National fleets have loads of Fiats and other cheap stuff. The privately owned franchises almost exclusively use Fords or Vauxhalls.

I can still spot the registration sequences that Avis / Hertz / Budget used when I worked for them and the percentage of old Fiats that were originally hire cars is astounding. Especially Mareas and Coupé Turbos.

The other option is most probably a 406 HDi Estate. I was considering getting a Passat or Audi estate, but then I realised I'd actually be driving the thing a lot, and if I didn't like driving it, it'd do my head in. Even the ZX, a car built for peasants, is a nice handling little thing and that makes driving enjoyable.

I'm surprised. They must be a bit overpriced on Ebay, although I have to be honest and whatever I'd be looking at, it'd have to be pretty clean and tidy, so that I've got a hope of doing 20k or so a year in it and not have to spend huge amounts on fixing it, and to still be worth a couple of quid in 3 or 4 years. OTOH it's a Diesel Estate, and any decent diesel estate will always be worth money IME.

If you pay £2700ish for one this year, do 20k miles in it, you'll probably get around £2200 for it next year. Mk1 Focii will start tumbling in price soon, there are already a few in the Trader for under a grand.

However, if you kept one for four years, you'll in all likelihood still get over a grand for it so it wouldn't be insane.

We bought the one we've got because it'll do 10k in the next few months and it'll still be worth what we paid for it and it's fun to drive.