But it can be. If you're willing to continually change gear, and drive around at 8000rpm (I am not willing to do this, which is why I dislike VTec engines so much) then you can stay around peak power all the time.
I'll rephrase my statement to include the obvious : When driven properly, and discounting stupid power curves, the headline bhp figure is all important.
I do want a Diesel engine - however, the number of non-underpowered ones (ie, 200bhp plus) can be counted on one hand, and cost an imperial fuckload of dosh :)
Yes, power = torque * rpm, which clearly shows that they are directly related, therefore both important. If torque is not important then set it at zero in the formula, and hey presto NO POWER. Make me an engine with 200bhp and 1Nm of torque then compare to an engine with 150bhp and 150Nm of torque. Then come and tell me that its power alone that wins races. Power and torque, or more specifically their graphs, dictate how a car performs (and a few other factors obviously).
See my proof above which clearly shows that one IS useless without the other (ok its not possibly to have one without the other but put in an infitesimally small value of torque and you have an infitesimally small power unless you rev to stupid rpm). Whether you have a stupid power curve or not, a cars acceleration will always match that of its torque curve so how can it not be important? The only way to make torque irrelevant is to have an infinte number of gear ratios, if you name a car that has this then i will shut up.
Have you ever done a road rally? I'm guessing not from your statements.
Well most people are idiots then :) A sporty car should be about performance and agility - everything else should come second.
Mine will rev to 5700rpm. Normally change up at 5000 if i'm in a hurry.
Yeah but when you apply them they will be cooler than without the increase air flow so it all helps. As i said, vents will find there way on there at some point....
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ A perfect sporty car then!! :)
Lemme see. It's been quite some years since I've done road rallying, but you had to keep to the speed limit and would get done for road traffic offences, etc, if you broke the law, especially speeding?
HST, they didn't tend to enforce the speed limit in NLS roads, so I can't say all were strictly law abiding once they got into the country lanes, but you had enough time to get to the controls without actually speeding, in theory, so it was usually a case of getting on with it early on and then taking it easy so as not to show up too early as you'd have to have been speeding if you did.
The most amusing part was going through towns, etc, causing traffic jams by being the slowest thing on that 30 road, despite maybe 400 bhp to play with. Then there were special stages, which were more about handling than outright speed IME but it's where the diesel would have to prove itself if you wanted to get a decent placing.
320d sport - 0-62 8.9, 50-75 7.2 (4th)
320i sport - 0-62 8.3, 50-75 8.7 (4th)
The 50-75 in 4th in the 320d is academic, in the petrol motor you'd use third for an overtake. And people buy 320i for the 6 cyl refinement and engine note. Cost restricted 3 series customers buy 316/318/320d, performance buy 325/330, company drivers wanting a six buy 330d. 320d and
Yep. You'd be disqualified if you were excessively speeding.
Generally speed limit are only observed by event officials in non NSL areas, but you often get the police patrolling about making sure you're not being a menance. Got pulled over a few rallies ago for going to quick (apparently) down a twisty NSL lane :(
Oooooooooh no, not round these parts it doesnt (apart from the traffiuc jams!). Unfortunately the South is a highly PR sensitive area so you have to be very careful about what we do. You'd be highly unlikely to get away with 400bhp!! The norm is more or less standard 205 GTis, mk2 escorts and Novas. and of course a few less popular choices like mine :) Events down here are much more navigational based, with the nav's skill ultimately deciding the result (although, as a driver, you need to be reasonably quick and competant). You get the odd event that is mostly pre-plot, notably the Carpetbagger that is probably the highlight of the ACSMCs (southern championship) calender. Elsewhere (esp Wales), this is the norm and road rallie are more like stage rallies. Most of the field would have fully prep'd cars and there'd even be spectators out. You'd never get away with that down here coz everyone is too miserable :(
A lot of the older generations go on about the good old days and how road rallying is dying in the south (because of this swing to more navigational based events), but as its all i have experienced i dont really care and just go out there to have fun.
So on the whole, driving enthusiastically for fun is generally quite a bit faster and more daring than doing a road rally (well, the bits on the roads are.) Figured that was your intent. :)
I've always felt this to be a difficult thing to prove, because the speed limit is frequently higher than a safe speed so there is always going to be a question of opinion.
Depending on the road, of course. It's not difficult to get up to speeds way above NSL if you can see another competitor ahead tanking along at high speed, because you have that much further to get rid of the speed when they come a cropper. Course, ex-rally there could be a vicar on a moped burbling along thinking about tomorrow's sermon, no fun to see that twenty yards ahead while you are doing 85.
Realistically, if you can't spot the police, you wouldn't have spotted the vicar, children crossing to the next field, etc, etc, so I'd have to put my hand up and pay the fine, usually. Better to have actual sections for going fast where there should be no pedestrians, if possible, which a road rally isn't going to have on actual roads.
Fair enough. I mostly dabble with tracks instead now, and the restrictions are about sound more than power, etc.
I guess you can't use sat nav?
Wales has some excellent mountainous roads, but I must admit I get scared of sliding off a cliff on most of them. :)
That's the reason to do it all, I wholeheartedly agree.
It depends, on the NSL bits, you generally drive fairly quick depending on how tight the time is, sometimes a bit too quick! But you have to have your wits about you the whole time. Obviously it helps tha it goes on between
11pm and 5am, as theres not many people about and its easier to see them coming.
(apparently)
Absolutely. The Police know whats going on so normally they just come out to be seen and give the odd person a telling off (which happened to be me), which is fair enough.
Theres is no direct restriction on power, but theres big restriction on what you can actually do to a standard car and how modified a 'modified' car can be. Also theres a 98dB sound limit. However if you could happily compete in any standard car as long as it was below that limit. For example, in Wales i've seen a Metro 6R4 on an entry list!
No :)
Indeed, spent an afternoon driving about the mountains last year during Rally GB - trmendous fun!
You can make 200bhp with lots of torque and bugger all revs, or lots of revs and bugger all torque. How you do it, isn't relevent - it's still 200bhp !
Er, now you're just being stupid.
Using sensible figures - let's say 200bhp with 200Nm, and 150bhp with 300Nm. The 200bhp car will offer more performance, because it has more power !
Yes, I already know that.
How many times are we gonna have this discussion ?
Stop this madness !
You know full well how it works, as do I - why are we arguing ?
Lets take your TD 205 for example. It makes 80bhp, and paploads of torque. Now lets take a 120bhp car, with lots less torque. The 120bhp car will be quicker, simply because it makes 50% more power ! You know this !
Rubbish. For the 150bhp to be quicker - it would either need a *VERY* wide powerband, or the 200bhp car would need a *VERY* narrow powerband. In practice, it's not gonna happen.
Civic Type-R makes 200bhp, and 195Nm. My 620TI makes 200bhp, and 240Nm.
Guess which is quicker (assuming you row the gearbox, and drive around sounding like a wasp with it's 'nads trapped in a vice).
You already know that Power is effectively a measure of how much torque is applied over a given time. It doesn't matter what the headline torque figure is - the more times per second you can apply it, then the more power you're going to make ! Conversely, you can have masses of torque, and apply it much less frequently - the end result won't change.
No, they have a _wider_ power band. They have a narrower torque peak, but the effect of that is that the power curve is much flatter than that of a petrol engine. Note that the 'width' of the powerband must be measured in reference to the engine speed - so a width of 1000rpm at 3000rpm is 'wider' than a width of 1000rpm at 5000rpm, IYSWIM.
If you were on a track in a car with a close-ratio box, then it could be worthless. If you are on the road in a car with ratios stacked for economy then it is very relevant. Most people simply will not e.g. shift down to 2nd gear at 50, and so will not achieve peak engine power, and will not accelerate as quickly as an equivalent power diesel.
As usual, over simplified. Put the Type R lump in your Rover with your gearbox and then see what happens.
The equation power = torque * rpm clearly shows that both are important as they are directly related, simple as that. Unless of course you had a near limitless rev range, which of course isnt the case.
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