Saab 9-5 Turbo Aero

That is what I mean by understand. Saabs in sporty spec don't go all bendy and understeery. Basic models do, but the sporty ones don't. And even if you find it a little bendy, there is even Hirsch to fix things without kippering any warranty.

Yes, they do seem a little dated sometimes (although more modern than anything including the octavia) than I've owned, but things work, fit properly and are comfy.

If it is any consideration, a lot of Mac owners are also Saab owners because of the historical ergonomics and design elements.

car - not the

That confirms so much about how pseudo poncy they are really, then. :-)

-- JackH

Saab 9-5 Aero - 260bhp 6.9s, 155mph Crossfire - 208bhp 0-60 6.5s, 145mph.

so, actually one of them does, but four of them hit 60 in less time. And you'd be the first to point out that 155mph is kind of irrelevant on your daily drive.

But over 3lt, no boot space, no rear seat space, not even on my radar.

And half the economy with that big V8, so not an option.

Much smaller car, not as much flexibility in-gear, less equipment, no auto option.

The interesting one, but still less equipment, not as comfortable, drinks like a fish, even in comparison with the HOT and an engine size that would be frowned upon.

It's not about 0-60, it's about what they can do on the road.

It's also about having an engine that I can get past HR - 3lt petrol is dubious, but do-able at a push, 3.2 petrol is definitely out and as for the Hemi, I'd be laughed out of the room.

So, given that I want a big 4 door saloon or estate (or, at a push, a big 2-door / 3-door coupe, ie. not the Crossfire, with lots of toys, leather, auto box and an engine that's around 2.5 lt petrol or 3.0 lt diesel, how many cars have 260bhp and the same kind of performance / space / equipment as the Saab?

My brother's Audi S4 (4.2L V8) does virtually the same economy as my Xantia

Point of order, available with DSG, which despite what I said once before, doesn't seem to be unreliable. And I defy anyone to need more space than a Leon, they're bloody HUGE.

I'm sure about a week ago the performance wasn't a factor, now 260bhp seems to be a sort of minimum figure! Even though for a super saloon that's a bit poor. Even the low spec 530s have that. I'm not ripping that as a reason, I'd be looking for something awesomely fast too, I'm just saying try not to get too hung up on it, and don't compromise other things for it :-) I'd still be looking for a DSG'd Golf GTi!

I'm sure you're going to compare it to a Clio now for some reason heh. Infact, the Clio at 0-60 in 6.4s is actually faster to 60 than the 9-5 hehe! Although, that's certainly a traction thing, I know it's not as quick before you explode hehe :-)

I did an autotrader search for a Leon Cupra, none of which had DSG.

Ahhhh, they're the 'FR', not Cupra version if you want DSG.

Which means 'only' 200bhp and nowhere near the same performance as a

The boot is also 100-odd litres, or nearly 30% smaller than that of my Passat, which is absolutely rammed full most of the time - the Leon isn't a *huge* car by any reasonable definition of huge - it's a mid-sized hatch, and at least 1 size down from what I'm looking for.

I'm sure you can get the Cupra with DSG... I'd check the Seat website. But I'm not that bothered really hehe :-)

You've said several times previously you don't give a flying f*ck about MPG...

And when did you last try one of these to determine they're not all that flexible in-gear, exactly?

They're not that small - you don't need that big a car anyway, and these have a huge hatch at the back. The one that gave me a bit of a burn on the way back from yours with the VFR last month seemed to shift well enough.

Less equpiment... yadda yadda, you're being just a teeny bit anal on that front IMHO - as I've said before, why is it I can be perfectly happy doing a long trek in something like an Astra SXi, and you can't?

The lack of auto, fair enough... although I'd still be considering actually getting that knee sorted rather than letting that dictate my choice of car.

The more this saga goes on, the more I am reminded of 'The Comic Strip Presents: Four Men in a Car'.

-- JackH

'Average', as in if you don't keep booting it... which you will.

-- JackH

Whilst the power isn't the ultimate deciding factor, when you start comparing other cars at around the same age / price, it *does* become a significant factor.

But other factors also come into play - like overall running costs (S-Types with 'Sport' kit have stupidly expensive tyres, as does the

Whilst the Golf GTI is a great car, it's also a small car, with very little rear space or boot space a harsh ride, and is generally not something in which I want to do 40k miles / year.

If I were doing average mileage, I'd jump at a GTI, but I want a big, comfy barge.

No, not at all.

I wasn't really doing comparisons, just saying that, 260bhp, leather, electric seats, decent stereo etc., at 1 year old for £15k isn't a wide market....

Within reason. Buying something that dips into single figures around town isn't a good plan.

Good point, but I've driven a Passat T-FSI DSG. It wasn't all that, really.

Because I'm spending my money and have my own criteria....

But I'd still want an auto. The more autos I drive, the more I wonder why the hell we bother with manual cars, outside of performance / track cars.

heh, well, people keep replying 'you don't want one of those, you want one of these' in a Harry Enfield style....

That's not what you said before - has someone from HR had a word in your shell, like, recently regarding this?

Buying something that'll depreciate like a stone and looked jaded and dated by the time it turns five years old, whilst becoming even more undesirable to the buying masses due to the relatively high VED by the time you do to get rid of it isn't a particularly good plan either IMHO.

I'm sure, given they've a turbo, you can get decent gains by remapping them.

We've done an A4 before and got a big grin and thumbs up off the owner when he tried it afterwards.

=2E..which is flawed.

Given you're a self professed, accomplished tight arse, I'd have thought you'd have been relishing the opportunity to make a few bob out of the opt out scheme, rather than lumbering yourself with something that'll be costly to run and haemorrage residuals faster than the Exxon Valdis spilt its guts.

Because it's only been with the advent of DSG etc, that they're starting to make sense in terms of economy / performance versus the equivalent manual.

I was thinking more along the lines of the key character acting in a 'Phear my mighty Toyota Avensis Phallus substitute!' stylee, actually.

-- JackH

That's why you want a V8 with LPG.....

It has always been a criteria. I've been told to 'be sensible and use the car list as a guideline.' - the 'benchmark' for us all is that an A4 V6 cabrio has been authorised - which means something around 28mpg combined will be fine.

I did suggest a Monaro, but HR and payroll went white as a sheet at that suggestion.

VED is just a smokescreen, and, unfortunately, the short term effect (or fortunately, if you're buying a big car at the moment) is that prices have taken a hit.

What will happen in 5 years time is that people will realise that there are very few big cars with low VED out there, and most of the pre-2001 cars will be considered 'too old' by most buyers.

At which point, you have the choice of either paying up for the VED or driving a diesel shopping trolley.

Whilst you're a fan of re-maps, I'm not. Especially as I'll be running something that's still in warranty.

If I want to make money, in the short term, I'd end up driving something that's worse than the company choices, though.

The whole point of opting out is to break even and get something that's better than what is on the list.

The profit comes at the end, when I either have a 5 year old car for Kaite, or a couple of grand in residuals left.

Whilst DSG is good, it's not the answer for me personally. It's great in a performance car / hot hatch, but it's nowhere near as relaxing to use as a proper auto - especially in traffic - where it doesn't to the auto 'creep' and becomes erratic and jerky.

Heh.

Still doesn't change the fact that everyone appears to know what's best for me, just because it's what's best for them....

And yes, I'm as guilty of that as the rest of you ;-)

Yup - on the radio the other day they were talking about the VED increases, and a bloke phoned in to say that next year his Fabia 1.4 Auto will be £250 to tax.....

I hope Katie's new name's working out for her :-)

Quite right too - they're the ones picking up the bulk of your fuel bill after all, and a Monaro does nothing extra work related, that the cars on the company car list will do.

Meanwhile back on Planet Earth you'll be stumping up the extra VED for the three or however many years it is you decide to keep whatever it is you buy.

It all adds up.

VED on mine is =A3155 a year come next year... hardly a diesel shopping trolley, is it?

What will happen, as well you know, is there will be a shift towards diesels in all sectors, not just the upper medium sector that the Passat sits in... well maybe all bar the really high end diesel barges which pump out loads of CO2 and get taxed accordingly.

More diesels will be sold pro-rata new, and older diesels will continue to depreciate slower than their petrol equivalents, perhaps even more so once the VED changes kick in properly.

Your loss. No sign of anything untoward happening with mine yet and it's been mapped for nigh on six months now.

Your point is, bearing in mind I've got access to VAG-COM as well?

No... you'd end up driving something that didn't make you waft along in a warm and fuzzy 'we are considerably richer than yowl' haze.

And we can't be having that now, can we? :-)

Whereas something 'bought to sell' would be worth a lot more than that, have almost certainly cost less to run in the meantime and might actually be something 'Kaite' might want to drive when you've had your fill of it.

You were singing its praises the other week...

So what - it also means you don't lose any economy and if anything you gain a few tenths in acceleration, whereas a conventional auto saps power and economy on most stuff bar bigger things like BMWs.

Well if you know what's so good for you, can I suggest you kindly bugger off and quietly torture yourself about what car of the day is from now on, rather than posting about it in here?

TIA

--

Fine.

But the likes of you keep replying... if you don't like it, don't respond :-P