Colin McRae has proved you wrong. Marcus Gronholm has proved you wrong. Sebastian Loeb has proved you wrong. Petta Solberg has proved you wrong. All of the aforementioned being far better drivers in cars with a system a hell of alot more capable than yours.
Picture the scene, it's the middle of the night in deepest, darkest Lancashire. Two total tear-arses are having this very same argument about whether it's possible to get an ESP equipped car to go stupidly sideways. To make things easier we'll call the ESP believer "Eddie", and the old style physics devotee "Pete"[1]. The car involved will be a Focus 2.0 Zetec ESP 3 door, a purple one, W reg and less than 3000 miles old.
The purple Focus is travelling along Atherleigh Way, which is a large, straight road which leads from Leigh to the East Lancashire Road. "Eddie", who's the passenger is goading "Pete" into attempting to take the turn onto the East Lancs. Rd at 80+ mph "because it's an ESP one, it'll do it no problem". This is what triggers the experiment...
"Pete" decides to prove "Eddie" wrong.
The Focus is approaching the East Lancs at 95 mph, "Pete" has remembered that the East Lancs is particularly worn at this junction, and that the crown of the road is a bit more sudden than is the norm. "Pete" steps on the gas that bit more, and as he approaches the lights for the junction does the old "Flash the headlights at the traffic lights" trick. The lights change to green as the purple Focus approaches. "Pete" gives it more gas.. "Eddie" is beginning to look worried. "Pete" has a stoopid grin, and is wondering to himself if he's going to manage to pull this off without dying.
The Focus suspension starts to compress as it crosses the crest of the East Lancs, just as this is happening "Pete" starts to turn right.. the Focus begins to turn in.. "Pete" stays on the gas and the Focus begins to understeer slightly.. it's doing well considering the thrashing it's getting.. The front wheels begin to go light as the front of the car crosses the crest of the first carriageway, "Pete" backs off the steering a touch to try to keep the car neutral, but has this suspicion that he's probably, finally, pushed the Focus beyond its capabilities.. The rear of the Focus comes off the crest and goes very light.. the Focus begins to oversteer in a huuuuuuge fashion.. "Pete" has still got his foot on the gas, the front of the Focus is *facing* the Armco barrier, and "Pete" is holding the car on full opposite lock, at full throttle, at probably still 85-90 mph. The ESP light on the dash is just *on* there are all sorts of pumps and things going nuts... The ESP is trying to slow down the car, when it needs to go faster.. "Pete" presses the ESP button "off" and the Focus straightens up and continues down the East Lancs in a happy fashion.
"Eddie" never goaded "Pete" about whether it was possible to get an ESP car sideways again..
"Pete", on the other hand, thanked the Ford for it's ESP making the corner possible, while cursing it for trying to kill him when he needed to power out of it.
I'm pretty sure that Focus could have rolled at any moment if "Pete" hadn't known what to do. It was the closest "Pete" had come to rolling a car and the last time he's going to take that corner at such a bloody silly speed in a hire car again.
[1] The names have probably been changed to protect the guilty.
Here you go..
Pete M in *agrees with Nom* shocker.
Yup, I know a bloke who bought a Skyline GTR thinking he would be invincible in it.
It lasted three days before he trashed most of it. Had to re-mortgage his house to pay for the repairs.
The rear tyres are V rated - the fronts are Y rated. I went over a pothole and buggered one of the front tyres.
I was going to replace them all with V rated Nankang NS-II rubber. Wise choice or not? Should I go up to the W rated NS-I instead? (only =A31.10 more expensive)
When I first got my Dedra Turbo the front tyres were some randon "made in Yugoslavia" brand that weren't speed rated at all! And they were the wrong profile (60 instead of 50)! They had no grip at all in the wet and the tyre guy showed me huge chunks that had come out of them when he changed them for Continentals.
Not per pound.
Let's say I change my noname rubber, to some Pirelli PZero Nero. They're £141, instead of the £59 I paid for my nonames. Do you rekon they offer over two times the grip ? No. Do you rekon they offer half as much grip again ? No. Do you think they offer ten percent more grip ? Possibly.
There's no way on earth I'd pay a 110% price premium, for 10% better functionality !
On the public highway, I don't even need 100% of the grip I've got. An extra bit ontop, isn't going to make the blindest bit of difference.
Agreed.
Agreed.
Eh ?
Why would you spend an extra 110% on your tyres, to allow for a 4mph cornering-speed increase ?
If you're going round bends on the public roads, at the limit of your rubber, then you need to fix your driving !
Depends on your definition.
Drive the car hard, wet and dry, does it grip and handle acceptably? Throw it around so it slides and squeels a bit, is the level of grip an sidewal stiffness etc good / bad / indifferent? If you are not racing it and it feels ok to you then they are fine. Try to fault them, other than noise compared to other tyres?
They may be crap on the track, but plenty good enough for general road use at sensible speeds. The rubber compound and grip is part of the standards so they cant be that bad! They may wear faster as to get the required grip from their possibly less advanced compounds, they may be really soft rubber instead...
Oh, so it it possible now? (c;
Can I have the keys now please.
Douglas
It's compression-ratio specific.
Diesel engines have LOTS of engine-braking available. TurboPetrol engines have next to none !
Yep.
Almost instantly - they react in the time it takes for the ultra-high-pressure ABS pump to open it's valve(s).
Excellent post, squire !
Thats the EBD working innit? Cos i have that, and i tested it just after i got the car, feels weeeeeeeeeiiiiiiiiirrd but got me round the corner :)
Doh.
For £1.10 a corner, go for the W. The way I see it, the tyre has to be pretty well built to cope with the highest speed ratings - so the higher the rating, the better the tyre (obviously it's not that simple, but you get the idea).
Ah, well I've only ever used sports-rating tyres (W/Y/Z, and V at a push) - you've just confirmed it was a wise choice :)
10 points to that man.
This is where people are confused, I am not talking about tracking or rallying the car, we are talking about road driving with relation to the tyres.
If I was to fly at 110mph down a country lane or take a corner at 90mph I would not expect to be able to stop/turn.
On a side note, I doubt rally cars use ESP setup like our road cars are, or they would never get round corners, the ESP would not let them, it prob uses a toned down version, as the one in my Audi is pretty aggressive.
I've always been under the impression it's in the wet where premium tyres earn their keep.
Nah EBD is a bit different, its Electronic Brake Distribution, it is part of ESP, but your car may just have EBD.
ESP works like a Helicopters GYRO scope, the same I have in my model one, the gyro stops the chopper from rolling over as it is inherently instable, if you have a heading hold gyroscope it works much like ESP, it stops the chopper from following the wind by automatically correcting rudder movements to keep it dead still.
ESP cars are equipped with ABS + EBD + TCS sometimes EDL and it works in-conjuction with all of these, but the important part of ESP is the YAW controller which is as mentioned above.
Yup I feel the same, as long as its BS approved and V +, I will run it, the only time I would get better tyres is if I bought a RWD car
Lol i just chuck out 2 pieces of bread for him :) Hedgehogs are well cool :P
But you won't fail, as you are all telling me you can do it :)
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