No Waiting Now

All these posts about what is and is not "off topic" are off topic.

Seems like a lot doesn't it? Well, to put things in perspective, when I fill my oil tank (I use kerosene to heat my home) it's a lot of money for something that isn't too much more than one cubic yard worth. It's hard to believe, looking at the 275 gallon tank. How about delivered bottled water? What, only one cubic foot for how much money? No wonder city delivered water rates have gone up so much. Heck, what's a few cents more for a cubic yard of water when a lot of people spend almost $5 for only less than one cubic foot of water? I remember when the Alaskan pipeline was proposed critics said the slopes would provide at most 10 years. Well, we've gone 3X that and they're still pumping. There's also a new find in the Gulf of Mexico predicted to hold trillions of barrels, and it'll start producing about three years from now. I think that announcement did more to drive the price of gasoline down more than anything else.

When one sees that ugly looking Nitro from Dodge you know America isn't serious about curbing consumption.

So, how's the ol' Prius doing?

I'm certainly not the OT police, but I did want to point out (relevant to a contention earlier in this thread) how certain topics are never going to lead to on-topic discussions. In many auto fora the "hot buttons" are synthetic vs. dino oil and DRLs. Here, any discussion of gasoline production or of politics in general tend to go this way.

Whether it's a bad thing I leave to the individual. I'm just sayin'....

Mike

I'm just glad I'm not the only one just sayin'.... Maybe it's a Mike/Michael thing. ;-)

Mark, the discrepancy is very easy to explain. ANWR's estimated total production would meet 9 months of our present demand but ANWR will be meeting a fraction of that demand over time. The statistic doesn't mean that ANWR will only pump for 9 months. Today, extreme measures, measures developed over the North Slope's production life, are used to extract oil.

The 500 million gallon gas figure looks way too high but it amounts to only

I'm not certain I get your point. I bought a Prius because I'm concerned about peak oil and global warming. It's not my fault these important issues have been politicized. My concerns cut to the chase (of Prius ownership) and are on-topic. At least a few have come here looking for justification for their own Prius purchase.

Bill

The point is that this is not a political discussion group.

Will you please tell me what is political about putting ANWR in the SPR? The statement isn't critical of any political party or politician. Conservation as an alternative to burning a valuable resource accrues to everyone's benefit. Politicizing, and the attendant polarization, is counterproductive.

If you find this topic politically sensitive then I suggest you work toward removing it from your political arena. It doesn't belong there.

That's not the issue. The issue is that, once a thread goes off-topic, it can easily get out of hand. Before I started this newsgroup (and, yes, I really am the one who started it, although it was actually Michelle Steiner's idea), I tried reading the main alt.autos.toyota newsgroup and quickly gave up because it was about 50% political stuff, most having nothing to do with Toyotas, or even autos, at all. I'm sure that it all must have begun rather innocuously enough.

Mike, the reasons for purchasing a Prius *are* on topic, right? I didn't raise the political issue, you did. Had you not snipped your reply, that would be perfectly clear. Now let's quit playing word games and get back to meaningful discussions regarding the Prius, including reasons for buying one.

Excuse me, but I have not raised any political issue in this newsgroup, EVER.

Mike:

You wrote:

"The point is that this is not a political discussion group."

With respect to the ANWR topic (go back and follow the thread). That was, I believe, the first time it was politicized.

Bill

Bill

My wife and I have bought two 2002s now, and peak oil and global warming never entered our minds. The Prius is the first successful expression of truly intelligent automobile design, and that different facets of that appeal to different people is quite natural. For my wife it was the fuel efficiency that interested her, for me it was mostly the advanced design; I was unwilling to buy a 20th century car in the 21st century. Then we drove it and fell in love.

The controversy in this thread started a week ago with a frankly partisan pronouncement. The fact is that the issues of peak oil and global warming, as well as the involvement of oil in world unrest, are thoroughly politicized (you would be appalled at my views). Any discussion of those is fated to devolve into polemic - we've all seen it many times. We are passionate people, after all. And that *is* a good thing.

Mike

All I can say, Mike, is try to get over it. Politicizing those issues is counterproductive.

Bill

It was not my decision to politicize any of those issues - I'm just an average guy tucked away in a small mountain town in rural Arizona. If I were to disappear tomorrow all those issues would be every bit as political as they are today. All those became political footballs because they imply policy effects. We are better off here without all that hoorah.

Mike

Mike,

There was no talk of politics with regard to the ANWR until you made a statement about avoiding politics. Apparently some political aspect of drilling in the ANWR was on your mind; I don't know.

What you have here, with your discussion of "political footballs" and "hoorah" is the perfect example of self-fulfilling prophecy. You, and you alone are experiencing the political component.

Bill

Actually, I never addressed ANWR, certainly not in this thread. I have no opinion one way or the other on it.

By my count this is the thirty-first post in this thread. Look at the subject line. Moe's original post was completely apolitical, as was MRV's humourous post. The rest were generated from mark_digital's mention of a "Democrat in the White House" and corazonw3's follow-up about voting Republican. Sounds political to me. In your November eighth post you acknowledge the shift with "Not all politics are off-topic," referring to the partisan posts but expanding into the environmental aspects in terms of the results of the election.

I agree with the view that politics is a corrosive force within this forum. You are free to disagree if you wish. Either way, I don't see this moving forward, so I leave the last word to you.

Mike

ANWR is a political matter from the outset.

Yes, and so is health care, food, clean water... each and every aspect of our lives has a political component.

Political Statement: The Republicans are fighting the creation of a national health care system.

Non-political statement: A recent study concludes the U.S. pays more for health care than do nations who have a national health care system.

So yes, ANWR is a political matter. Some Republicans favor drilling in the ANWR. Some Democrats favor drilling in the ANWR. Some Republicans favor not drilling in the ANWR. Some Democrats favor not drilling in the ANWR. These facts in no way eliminates it's many non-political realities.

The last one with oil wins. Right now, that is probably as good a reason for purchasing a Prius as any other, whether or not it's Mike's reason.